WC Wholesale animals

Recently, I've been noticing a lot of WC animals offered for sale on wholesaler lists. I would really like to encourage people to buy captive bred animals instead, or to even go out and collect an animal yourself. A lot of the animals for sale are adult Ambystomids, and these animals are typically collected in the hundreds and actions like this can have a huge impact on wild populations; it can take years or decades to fully recover from events like this, because often times these collectors can collect a large percentage of the population's breeding adults. These animals rely mainly on adult survivorship rather than juvenile recruitment, so without the adults, the population is severely damaged.

Additionally, buying from these wholesalers runs the risk of contracting a pathogen that can be spread to your other animals. Chytrid is being found in more and more places, and it's extremely easily spread to other amphibians. Since these wholesalers deal in very large volumes of animals collected from different areas, the risk of a pathogen spreading through all the animals offered can be very high.

So please, consider buying from a breeder if at all possible. There are a few ads in the classifieds right now (8 this month for the US alone, representing a number of neat species). Buying CB animals helps support the hobby a great deal; you're encouraging captive breeding, providing some cash to your peers, and reducing the demand on wild caught animals. Additionally, you might be the one offering animals some time down the road, so it comes back to help you in the end.

This isn't as bad as the kaiseri imports that came in last year, but it's still unfortunate and unnecessary. I don't want to sound preachy, but our hobby shouldn't come at the expense of the natural world.

I think it's common knowledge that we don't allow the sale of wild caught animals here. We do appreciate your thoughts and I personally agree completely.

Peter, I completely agree with you. Captive bred is the reason to go for numerous reasons. I feel that wild caught animals are only necessary when captive breeding populations need to be started or when their genetics need to be expanded. I am a firm believer that only captive bred animals be available to the general public and that wild caught be available to breeders. That being said, when I started out in this hobby, all the animals I got were wild caught. My source was the New York Metro Reptile Show, and a majority of those animals are wild caught, in fact i'd reason to say that all of the salamanders and newts have been wild caught at times. The first captive bred ones I have seen were N. strauchii and T.marmoratus at the last show. All of my original salamanders; Tylototritons, Salamandras, Parmesotritons, even Cynops, were probably wild caught. Its a sad circumstance because those mass dealers that breed to the public are not interested in captive stock for the most part because it is more expensive and they are not going to put in the effort to breed them. I have to commend people like Michael Shrom, who posts on Kingsnake, and goes to shows. We can make captive bred newts and salamanders available on this website forever, but most of the members of this site are breeders or experienced hobbyists and know where to obtain their specimens anyway, it is not until we make them available to the general public at shows and online that they will truly catch on.

Alex

I don't think the general pet-buying 'not-so-aware' public even care wether the animal is CB or WC. There should to be legislation/laws etc to make pet shops/stores show proof of where and who the animals came from, only allowing licensed breeders to supply. There should be strict limitations on shipping them and they should be generally more expensive, more like £20 instead of £5 for a fire belly newt. I might sound naeve here but I don't actually know what the current laws are regarding shipping newts etc, are there limits, who organises it etc.. but basically we need to cut the WC at the source, don't trust the public with a choice because they don't care.

Additionally, buying from these wholesalers runs the risk of contracting a pathogen that can be spread to your other animals. Chytrid is being found in more and more places, and it's extremely easily spread to other amphibians. Since these wholesalers deal in very large volumes of animals collected from different areas, the risk of a pathogen spreading through all the animals offered can be very high.

As a registered Pennsylvania aquaculturist I receive notices from Pa. dept of Ag. A couple weeks ago I got a notice about a quarantine order on bait fish from the great lakes watershed. Viral hemorrrhagic septicemia has been designated a "dangerous transmissible disease" of animals. VHS exists in Pa, illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, and Wisconsin. This order is just about restrictions on fish. I have heard reports about massive die offs in tiger salamanders and septicemia. I have no idea if the vhs in fish can be transmitted to caudates. The die offs in tigers might be a viral problem or simply poor husbandry. It pays to be cautious.

I advocate purchasing c.b. animals whenever possible. I also occasionally purchase legal w.c. animals to obtain new breeding stock. I do not advocate the illegal professional level and hobbyist level sales of c.b. and w.c. animals that is prevalent in the caudate trade.

I totally agree. It just feels so wrong to see people selling hand fulls of WC amphibians.

Usually this time of year the salamanders and newts get more available, with breeding seasons and that starting, they are easily found.

Just wondering.

I'm sure the caudate hobby is a tiny tiny thing compared to the problems with, say, parrots, snakes, and primates...but it is still a big problem.

I am amazed at the number of species available in the US(though some seem to have shady backgrounds)...and I think it is enough for a lifetime of enjoyment. Anything additional, with the hobby so far progressed...should be animals harvested in a small group to start a population or better yet bred in the home country.