Larvae's legs are rotting, please help!

Hi all,

I thought everything was going well but now I have three very sick larvae!

Background info: My larvae (hatched April 20) are hanging in baskets around the rim of the parent's aquarium. The aquarium is new (cycling). This weekend there was an elevated nitrite reading (at 2 on the dip strip) so I have been doing major water changes since Saturday. This is stressful for the larvae as I must first catch the larvae and remove them to a temporary container before I drain the water because the nets will be out of the water as the water level recedes. I have been adding seeder bacteria with the new water. Water values are good again since yesteday.

Today one of the guppies in the aquarium was dead. It was encased in a gauzy bubble. Next, two of my larvae have the same bubble on their right front legs! (Pics below.) A third larva is as good as dead, his gills are curved so far forward that they almost touch his nose, and he barely moves at all. There is no nastiness on him, though. The other two are still active.

I read this in the article http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/salt.shtml:
"Skin fungal infections can occur in contaminated wounds, but are usually occur as a result of very poor husbandry conditions and in very stressed, immune suppressed animals." Ouch. What did I do wrong?? How do I fix it?

I have separated the three sick larvae from the others. What do I do now? Can such young hatchlings survive a salt bath? How do I dose salt for such little ones? Will the nastiness spread to my other animals? Please help soon.

Thank you,

-Eva-in-Panic

Hey Eva, from what I read on that link you posted I would think that using the salt formula that was listed for eggs wouldnt harm your babies. As you know I am by no means any expert on any of this but just seemed logical to me.

Take a deep breath.

My advice would be to remove all the larva from the tank and put in clean dechlorinated water, salt bath those that you see have fungus, as stated above use the mixture as for eggs. Do this twice a day three if possible.
It is far better for your larva to have clean dechlorinated water daily as there is less risk of them becoming ill due to water conditions.It is also easier to monitor their feeding, and cleaning their waste.

Ok I will try and I will keep y'all posted as to progress.

-Eva

Oh no, thinking of you and your larvae

Thank you, Alison, that's sweet and kind of you. I just went completely brain dead when I saw them. Blind, total panic. The whole time I'm ladling them out and draining the aquarium (10-liter bucket by 10-liter bucket, I gotta get a longer hose) I'm thinking of all the grand advice I've given to people here - people even gave me positive comments! - and here I am with tiny wounded. Felt like a big fat loud-mouthed fool. The comment in the article about "very poor husbandry conditions" just crushed me.

Then I showed my going-blind-with-age-and-can't-see-them-otherwise husband the pictures of my poor little hurting babies, and he said - get ready for the sensitivity, the caring - he said, "Gosh, my camera takes really sharp detail!" So I got mad at him, and that made me feel a little better (it always does). If I can just stay mad or keep laughing, the panic might not rise again.

The fact that you are doing water tests and understand that your tank is cycling pretty much removes you from the "very poor husbandry" category. However, trying to raise larvae in the same tank that contains adults and is still cycling is a risky business. A nitrite reading of 2 is fairly serious. It sounds like you are doing the right things to get back on track.

Dare I ask - how many larvae are you raising? You may call me heartless (or any other names you like), but I would honestly recommend euthanizing the 3 sick ones and focusing your attention on the remaining healthy ones. Even with treatment, it's unlikely that a larva with that much "fuzz" will pull through.

Jennewt said:

Dare I ask

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Well phrased. Yes, I have enough to cope with mishap. I have 24. My friendly neighborhood creature dealer wants 20, and I want 2, and I figured 24 would be a good bet, just in case. As in this case.

More than anything, I am concerned about the underlying causes. Yes, cycling, and relatively high nitrite, even for such a short time. The guppies are kind of fancy, meaning highly bred, meaning sensitive to everything, so they are actually functioning like canaries in a mine for me. So one died, and someone suggested to me that the dead guppy started the fungus business.

Nitrite is down to zero (whew) and I keep testing the water every few hours (every time I start panicking again) so that helps me keep an eye on things.

I would not call you heartless. I'm also worried that the cure will prove as lethal as the disease to the little ones. I put them in a mild salt solution and that started them swimming furiously. I can't imagine that a salt cure is pleasant with such a large wound. I am just not sure about the kindest way to euthanize them. To avoid offending anyone, perhaps you could send me a PM if you have a suggestion.

Thank you,

-Eva

Hello Eva,

I'm sorry that you are having difficulty with your larvae but rest assured that you are doing the best that you can :happy:

You mentioned that you are using the dip stick method for testing the water. This method is very inaccurate, thus I'd recommend that you purchase the ones that utilise titration (i.e. solution in a bottle).

Also, by seeding the tank with bacteria, do you mean to say that you have been supplementing the tank with bacteria in a bottle? Because this would undoubtedly add to your "bioload" and hinder the nitrification "cycle".

Nonetheless, best of luck with everything! I'm sure it'll work out for the best.

Jay.

G'mornin' Jay! Was hoping to hear from you.

Yes, I had been using a bottle of starter bacteria. I was actually wondering if they might have been the problem because all had been well until I started using them. Was wondering if the infection could be bacterial instead of fungal.

As to testing, yes, I just have the dip strips. I want a more accurate system and will have to look around here for what I can find. My friendly neighborhood pet shop fellow hasn't been much help in this one regard - he told me I don't need to test ammonia levels, and when I questioned the accuracy of the dip strips, he only bragged that whatever it is that he uses "tests at an accuracy to the third decimal point". Sigh. I don't know how it is where y'all live, but here in Berlin the biggest problem with talking to professionals is their know-it-all attitude...

The 3 sick larvae are dead now. They did not survive the night. The others are out of the new aquarium and back in the older one and I'm down to crossing my fingers for them. Now I have to figure out how to keep the guppies in the new aquarium from dying.

Is there something that can also test the fungal and/or bacterial levels in water? (I mean besides overbred guppies?)

-Eva

blueberlin said:

I don't know how it is where y'all live, but here in Berlin the biggest problem with talking to professionals is their know-it-all attitude...

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yep, same here... and most of the time they are completely wrong!

Don't beat yourself up over this (I know it's easier said than done) you are doing everything you can for these little guys, larvae have a high mortality rate and sometimes they just die no matter what you do (as you are aware, I speak from bitter experience)

I think you are doing the right thing getting them out of the new tank and as for the guppies all I can suggest is stop using the starter bacteria and do regular water changes until the levels drop.

I do wish you all the best

Alison

Thank you, dear. I'm gonna beat this thing.

Hello Eva,

I'm sincerely sorry for your loss but just remember that despite their time being short-lived, they were handled with great care :happy:

blueberlin said:

G'mornin' Jay! Was hoping to hear from you.

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Always around

blueberlin said:

Was wondering if the infection could be bacterial instead of fungal.

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I do not know whether this is possible. Hopefully somebody else can come and fill in the blanks. Sorry. However, if it is a bacterial infection then the fungal infection should be secondary. Have you noticed anything odd about your larvae? Perhaps an imbalance or loss in coordination?

blueberlin said:

..."tests at an accuracy to the third decimal point". Sigh. I don't know how it is where y'all live, but here in Berlin the biggest problem with talking to professionals is their know-it-all attitude...

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Seems the type of person to go around proclaiming the pi is exactly 3 But yes, purchasing the testing kit that is the liquid solution is a lot more accurate than the dip strips.

blueberlin said:

"Is there something that can also test the fungal and/or bacterial levels in water? (I mean besides overbred guppies?)

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Unfortunately no because the symptoms for bacterial infections tend to vary, thus making it difficult to diagnose without uncertainty. However, some signs of a bacterial infection include:

- Reddish patches forming on the skin; in particuar the legs or stomach regions.
- Smalls lumps/bumps developing on the skin
- Swelling/bloating can also occur. However bloating usually correlates to kidney damage.
- Refusal/regurgitation of food
- Patchy skin

I think the best thing that you can do for now is keep your larvae in a clean container. This should reduce the stressors in the environment. As you are aware already, if an axolotl is placed in an environment that brings about stress, this will inevitably lower its immune system and make it more susceptible to diseases, including bactertial infections.

Jay.

I've got the babies' baskets all back in the mother's aquarium. They seem to be doing quite fine, chasing daphnia, moving about, looking all around. Mama is quite interested in them, too, standing on the tip of her tail and staring at them through the basket - probably her...maternal... instinct coming out there, right? Papa in his aquarium with the guppies looks well, too. The guppies not so, there's another one who just keeps lying on the sand. Water quality tests ok on the strips and I'll be going shopping today to get some spiffy new test kit. With the nursery baskets out of that aquarium, it's much easier to do the water changes, too.

blueberlin said:

. Mama is quite interested in them, too, standing on the tip of her tail and staring at them through the basket - probably her...maternal... instinct coming out there, right? .

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More like hunger pangs

shhhhhh let me dream...

ali000 said:

Don't beat yourself up over this

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That goes for you too Missy!

blueberlin said:

Thank you, dear. I'm gonna beat this thing.

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That a girl!

There is no emoticon to express my admiration for both of you and the sorrow for your little ones, it rends the heart when you nurture your axie and when something goes so terribly wrong you have to stand by helplessly and hope they pull through.

Thankfully, support is never far away as we are part of this wonderful forum - I only hope we don't have to start paying these people what they are worth!

blueberlin said:

I've got the babies' baskets all back in the mother's aquarium. They seem to be doing quite fine, chasing daphnia, moving about, looking all around.

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A wonderful sign! Keep us posted.

blueberlin said:

Mama is quite interested in them, too, standing on the tip of her tail and staring at them through the basket - probably her...maternal... instinct coming out there, right?

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I'm sure it is...:lol:

Jacq.

I'm so glad this forum exists

Thank you all for getting me through yesterday and last night. I don't know what I would have done if I'd been alone.

-Eva

blueberlin said:

I'm so glad this forum exists

Thank you all for getting me through yesterday and last night. I don't know what I would have done if I'd been alone.

-Eva

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you do the same for us

Havelock said:

That goes for you too Missy!

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thats me told

ps, how do you do multiple quotes in one message? (sorry to steal your thread eva )