When shall my axolotl turn into a salamander?

Jamesthenewt · Jun 9, 2008

Hi, james here.I have an 80cm long aquarium for my axolotl.I have had her for about 1 month or 2.I heard that axolotls can turn into a tiger salamander,im a bit worried when she will turn into one.My axolotl is not very big and is eating fine.
When will my axolotl turn into a tiger salamander?
Thanks
James

Kerry1968 · Jun 9, 2008

Hi James, I think you've got your wires crossed a bit here! Axylotls are a different animal altogether than a fire salamander, although they are in the same family group (correct me if I'm wrong someone). Axolotls will VERY occasionally metamorphasize into a air breathing salamander, but this is definitely the exception rather than the rule and it wouldn't be a fire salamander even then. Have a read up on the axylotl site to find out more about our little water-based friends!! Kerry

Abrahm · Jun 9, 2008

Axolotls are different animals than tiger salamanders. Axolotls, Ambystoma mexicanum, are facultatively neotenic, meaning they will not metamorphosis into terrestrial adults (salamanders.) Some axolotls are actually hybrids of A. mexicanum and tiger salamanders A. tigrinum and A. mavortium. Some of these hybrids become terrestrial adults, but it is quite rare.

The short answer is you don't have to worry about your axolotl becoming a terrestrial adult.

Kerry1968 said:
Axylotls are a different animal altogether than a fire salamander, although they are in the same family group (correct me if I'm wrong someone).

Fire salamanders are from a different group (Salamandra) but James was refering to tiger salamanders.

Kerry1968 · Jun 9, 2008

Oops sorry, looks like I got my wires crossed too! Thanks for pointing that out!!

Kal El · Jun 9, 2008

Hello Abrahm,

Some axolotls are actually hybrids of A. mexicanum and tiger salamanders A. tigrinum and A. mavortium. Some of these hybrids become terrestrial adults, but it is quite rare.

Experiments of this degree have been carried out. Although, I must admit that that they are rather old. Nonetheless, R. Humphrey crossed a neotenic A. mexicanum with a A. tigrinum, and all the resulting F1 offspring metamorphosed. F1 species were then crossed with each other and yielded 25% neotenic and 75% metamorphosing offspring. Crossing of the F1 species with orginal A. mexicanum resulted in 50% neotenic and 50% metamorphosing offspring. All of this information indicated that neotentic condition is because of recessive homozygosity at a single locus.

Jay.

Jamesthenewt · Jun 9, 2008

I read the other forum made by freakygeaky
How did his axolotl turn into a salamander?

Abrahm · Jun 9, 2008

Thanks for that Jay! I'm no Ambystoma expert by any means. Interesting to hear the experiment and quite amazing that their paedomorphism can be pinned to one locus. You wouldn't happen to have a reference for that?

I was more referring to the "fact" that the majority of axolotls available are not pure genetic stock and contain some small percentage of tiger salamander parentage. I'm not sure about the veracity of that statement but I thought I saw it from prominent members.

Kal El · Jun 9, 2008

You wouldn't happen to have a reference for that I look at?

Sure do :happy:

Tompkins, R, 1978, 'Genic Control of Axolotl Metamorphosis', American Zoologist, Vol. 18, No. 2, pp. 313-319

and also the following: http://www.jstor.org/pss/3882385

The first page actually mentions what I posted, so that's pretty easy viewing.

Jay.

Abrahm · Jun 9, 2008

Jamesthenewt said:
I read the other forum made by freakygeaky
How did his axolotl turn into a salamander?

If you had read the thread then you would have seen that he acquired his animal from really bad conditions. Sometimes these conditions convince the animals biochemistry that it should metamorphosis to find better conditions on land. The majority of times an axolotl under those conditions will just die. His metamorphosed axolotl was a lucky product of extreme circumstances.

Kal El said:
Sure do :happy:

Thanks for that!

infested · Jun 9, 2008

So is there any evidence suggesting that offspring of axolotls that metamorphose in later life have a higher occurence of metamorphosis, or is it more an environmental factor?

ali000 · Jun 10, 2008

Basically, the only way to 'force' an axolotl to morph is to not look after it properly, which I'm sure you wouldn't want to do! It's extremely stressful and often kills the animal, if it does happen to survive the experience then it's life expectancy is greatly shortened.
You seem very interested in getting your Axie to morph. My advice to you is if you want an animal that morphs from aquatic to land then buy a tiger salamander.

Kaysie · Jun 10, 2008

Even if you don't look after it properly, chances are it will die rather than morph.

ali000 · Jun 11, 2008

Kaysie said:
Even if you don't look after it properly, chances are it will die rather than morph.

Absolutely. James, Please, just enjoy what you have got.

ianclick · Jun 11, 2008

Hi James,

I am thinking that you are quite happy having an axolotl and are worried about it morphing into a salamander.

If you follow the advice you have been given about a clean and healthy habitat for your axie then there is only a very slim chance your axolotl would morph naturally.

So don't worry, just keep on doing what you are doing and do keep asking questions its the best way to learn.

Jamesthenewt · Jun 15, 2008

ok
Thank you all for your great advice!
James

Daniel · Jun 15, 2008

Kal El said:
Experiments of this degree have been carried out. Although, I must admit that that they are rather old.

The experiments of Prof. Humphrey are indeed rather old and the results were very interesting (expecially the metamorphosis-rate). Humphrey used a metamorphed albino Tigersalamander at this time (that's how the albino strain came into Axolotls - I think most of you will know the story)
.
Some years ago a "hobbyist-breeder" from Germany interbred Axolotls with a neotenic Tigersalamander and as far as I know the majority of the offspring was neotenic, but I do not have a statistical number and not all of the data was published.
I keep such a F1 hybrid myself, it still is neotenic (she is about 3 or 4 years old now) and all of the offspring of her siblings (F2) were neotenic, too. I do not raise any of her offspring because of the uncontrolled hybridization, though.

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