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qaz
13th June 2008, 13:52
After the joy of receiving two new pets comes the very real worry that one is sick and that both are bloated.
Angel:

http://caudata.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=40&pictureid=216

Alexis:

http://caudata.org/forum/picture.php?albumid=40&pictureid=209

The irony is that for the past three or four years they have been living in less than ideal conditions - small gravel, smallish tank, tap water (occasionally untreated!?) and no filtration.

My nieces have loved them so please don't feel ill will towards them they tried their best and had the heart and soul to pass them on to some one who might learn how to look after them (I keep fish tanks but never axolotyls!) and now they can come and visit.

Anyhow, it's now been four days in their new tank someone or both has been excreting the old gravel. Both are looking less bloated than before and Alexis (black) is floating less - above photo is not indicative of usual resting pose but rear legs are generally in the air. Angel (albino) has no such floating problems but he(?)has become less active.

Alexis has become the active one when she wasn't before but she's not eating whereas Angel is.

I've researched using axolotyl.org website and caudata culture. In this forum I have come across threads to help me, in particular this thread (http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=52719&highlight=white+spot) about white patches.

I've probably found my solution - it may be too little too late however :-( but maybe not as I've yet to ask my nieces how long she has had the patches and both have been very resilient.

So, I need reassurance that I should follow the above thread's advice.

My water parameters:
ph= 7.2
ammonia= nil
nitrIte= nil
nitrAte=5ppm
Temp=19 C
Water depth = now 8cm (7 inches) was a full display tank depth.

More images of them are available here (http://caudata.org/forum/album.php?albumid=40).

Hope you can help Angel and Alexis ( I've looked at their cloacas still not sure of genders but I've inherited their names anyhow)

Jacquie
14th June 2008, 00:40
Anyhow, it's now been four days in their new tank someone or both has been excreting the old gravel. Both are looking less bloated than before and Alexis (black) is floating less - above photo is not indicative of usual resting pose but rear legs are generally in the air. Angel (albino) has no such floating problems but he(?)has become less active.

Alexis has become the active one when she wasn't before but she's not eating whereas Angel is.

Hi Qaz and welcome aboard :happy:,

I'm sorry, I can't see the 'above' photos, they are not attached.

If the axolotls have been on gravel in the past for 3 -4 years, the chances are high that the lot ingested has not as yet passed and if the axolotls are consistantly floating, I would suggest you put the axolotls in the fridge to aid them in passing the remaining gravel.

If the axies are only floating on occasion though and spend the majority of their time down the bottom, then just keep an eye on them.

If the axolotls are 3 - 4 years of age, they should not be very active at all - adult axies spend much of their time during the day doing as little as possible. At night however, they will be active.

If Alexis is very active and not eating she is likely stressed.

If Angel is down the bottom, is eating well and not very active then this is good.

I'm not quite clear on what you mean by 'the usual indicitive resting pose'. An axolotl should remain on the bottom, floating is not resting. Tail in the air and floating usually means the axie is trying to pooh or may be suffering an obstruction that he or she is trying to pass.

I've researched using axolotyl.org website and caudata culture. In this forum I have come across threads to help me, in particular this thread (http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=52719&highlight=white+spot) about white patches.

I've probably found my solution - it may be too little too late however :-( but maybe not as I've yet to ask my nieces how long she has had the patches and both have been very resilient.

So, I need reassurance that I should follow the above thread's advice.

My water parameters:
ph= 7.2
ammonia= nil
nitrIte= nil
nitrAte=5ppm
Temp=19 C
Water depth = now 8cm (7 inches) was a full display tank depth.

White patches that seem to be under the skin are contributed to 'heat stress'. If your tank temp has remained at a consistant 19 degrees as you detail above, this will not be the cause.

Fungus appears as a white cottony substance and can be caused by water temperature (ie. above 22 degrees), Water quality, and stress. If you could repost the pictures of the axolotls this will help us ascertain the problem.

http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55492 (http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55492) - this thread gives instruction as to how to upload pictures from your computer to the forum.

Your water parameters are very good.

Stress which is a contributor to fungus can be caused by water movement though. Is there any water current from the filter? If so, have you deflected the flow away from the axies?

Hope you can help Angel and Alexis ( I've looked at their cloacas still not sure of genders but I've inherited their names anyhow)

The male axolotl will have a significant bulge to his cloaca, the female does not. If you are not sure, you could post us a couple of pictures of the axies, and we'll be happy to help you identify the gender. :D

Cheers Jacq.

digger
14th June 2008, 00:43
sorry cant see the photos of your babies only your tank.
without photos it is hard to tell what, if any problems they have.

qaz
14th June 2008, 02:16
Sorry Jacq and Frances Dansie, I forgot to make my album public so I could see the images but didn't realise no-one else could!:-) I'm hoping members can see them now? I'm not sure how the albums work - as it says my gallery images are nil in my details on the left.

@Jacq - thank you for such an informative response I gather I should put Alexis (black) into the fridge regardless of the diagnosis due to the stress s/he must be feeling, poor thing. She occasionally has four feet on ground. During day she hides under plants and logs for shade and support I presume but at night her tail and rear legs are up most of the time.

There is is some water movement from the Eheim 2008 internal filter but I've got it on its' lowest setting and directed the flow to the rear glass panel. They are used to no water flow however, as their last tank had no filtration.

Alexis had the white patches before I received her so maybe the smaller tank got hotter more easily and led to heat stress? Tank also had no hiding/shaded areas.

More 'gifts' of gravel are appearing but I suspect it's from Angel; will know for sure when Alexis goes 'on her holidays' to the fridge.

Thanks again for your help.

Jacquie
14th June 2008, 04:43
Hi Qaz,

Yes, please fridge Alexis - that belly I would say is stuffed full of gravel.

Keep the axolotls seperate - fungus and bacteria are contagious.

Prepare a tub of fresh dechlorinated water, put enough water in to just cover Alexis and ensure he/she can touch the ground. Set fridge for about 5 degrees celcius - no lower! - and pop Alexis' tub in the fridge. You will need to cover the tub with a teatowel so the light coming on and off doesnt disturb Alexis.

You will need to keep a couple of bottles of dechlorinated water in the fridge as well, these will be used for 100% daily water changes and the salt baths - this is so Alexis is not subjected to temperature shock.

A salt bath will need to be done two to three times a day. Dissolve 2-3 teaspoons of salt per litre of water and leave axie in bath for about 10 minutes - no longer than 15 minutes as the salt will start to damage the axie's skin and gills.

Prepare a fresh salt bath each time of treatment.

The cold of the fridge will slow Alexis' metabolism right down so you may find he/she will not be inclined to eat. Try with some food each day, but don't worry if he/she doesnt eat. Most importantly the fridge will also help Alexis pass the gravel and destress him/her.

Good luck, and please if you have any questions or concerns - give us ahoy!

Cheers Jacq.

digger
14th June 2008, 08:46
Hi again,
yes i agree you should fridge Alexis to help pass the gravel.
As for salt baths, i dont think there is any need at present as the white patches do not seem to be fungus, fungus tends to be fluffy where as the white patches on you axie seem to be skin pigmentations.
I would keep an eye on their skin to ensure you fungus does develope due to stress issues though just in case.

qaz
14th June 2008, 09:35
Hello and thank you both for your help.

Alexis had a salt bath this afternoon and is now in the fridge. I hope the little fella will pull through as there's probably a lot of gravel to go, judging by that belly!

Will ask my sister-in-law about the pigmentation (ie Was Alexis black when she got him/her?) and keep an eye on it myself to see if it indeed spreads or not. Had no net big enough to hold her so had to use my, washed, hands and then washed them again in case it is fungus and can spread to humans!;-) Plus I don't want to cross contaminate my aquariums or Angel.

Thanks again