Unidentified larva

lims

lims

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Today I went on an impromptu trip to a local nature spot with my friend, part of an ancient bog-system. We visited the same ponds and ditches as last time (the park was featured in my "sinister toad trip" field account thread). All we ever find is stickle backs and tadpoles in seperate ponds, no newts at all. We came to a small pond which I think may dry up in summer, I remembered this pond as the "leach pond" where I had previously found numerous large leaches, water beetles, zero newts.

In 30 minutes we netted 6 larvae in this small pond. I do not reckognise these larvae as L. vulgaris, they are too big. My instant thoughts were neotonic L vulgaris larvae, but The patterns are like none I've seen. Can anyone identify them?
I put all 6 newts back in the pond afterwards:















 
How big were they?
 
Hang on, what country was this? I see you said you were France lately.
 
This is back in Newcastle England, larvae were about 4 cm in length.
 
They look like cristatus to me.
 
That's what I thought, but I just couldn't believe it. There is no record or knowledge of them being in the area, so it's quite exciting..
 
You need to report that to English Nature I believe. Get them to check.
 
Its just the pond was so small as well..
 
I think the dorsal crest is rather low, there is no tail filament and the snout looks a bit blunted, not enlongated... I go for L. vulgaris! These are certainly no neotenic adults, just large larvae.
 
I really am not sure. I thought there was a tail filament, though a bit short.
 
hi

I would be inclined to agree with Wouter, the eye is not quite right for a cristatus, and the tail is not right.


Ben
 
I´d say Lissotriton for sure.... Wether it´s vulgaris or helveticus scapes me, though it looks slightly different to the helveticus larvae i´ve seen so it´s probably vulgaris.
 
Another vote for smooth/palmate. As well as the tail filament and higher tail fin as mentioned above, crested larvae have large black spots on the tail fin, longer fingers, longer gills, a more rounded belly, and a wider head. They'd also be much bigger at this stage of development.

Compare with this picture (though it doesn't show the tail filament):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/TriturusCristatusMiddleSizedLarva.JPG

Keep looking though, lims, there are quite a few crested newt sites around Newcastle.
 
Yes, the fingers are certainly not right for cristatus, I also thought the black tail markings were not quite right, but I have been finding vulgaris larvae for years and never seen larvae like these before. I'm inclined to agree that they are not Cristatus, but they're not normal vulgaris larvae either.

? ??? ?
 
also, they do have a slight tail filament, but different from helveticus, I still don't believe they're vulgaris or helveticus, but they really don't look like cristatus either !! ??

anyone else have an idea?
 
If the place you visited is the place it looks like it is then it could possibly be a great crested newt as i know there is a population in the Newcastle upon Tyne area (North Tyneside) (dont want to say too much because of the location policy). The only way to tell exactly what it is would be to go back to the pond to see how the larvae looked as they grew.
 
I would say vulgaris,don't no off it's Vulgaris or Heviticus.Have them in my garden and they look the same.
Petro
 
Hey,
As far as I know, T. Cristatus larvae aren't that small when they are that far along in the development stages. So I would definately say that it would be a lissotriton too. Whether it is Vulgaris or Helveticus is anybody's guess but are Vulgaris not slightly larger than Helveticus? Or maybe I am speaking rubbish.

Blackhawk
 
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