Random White Spot on Gills?

AGreenDarkness · Nov 16, 2008

Came back to campus after the weekend to find that part of Squishy's gill on one side is almost pure white, even when I feed her it doesn't get red. Here are some pictures, any ideas on what it could be are greatly appreciated

thya · Nov 17, 2008

as far as i can tell it seems to be a little fungus - currently i am having exactly the same issue with my white lady over here:

what are your current temperatures and water parameters, are they ok? or did you change anything in the tank recently?

the best treatment is to bath her in iodine-free salt water once everyday until it goes away.

the "intense-bath" would be the best option imho - simply add 5g of iodine-free salt (equals one teaspoon) to every litre of water - for example: completely solve 25g iodine-free salt in 5 litres of water. and then put her in the bath and keep her there for approx. 10 minutes, afterwards she can return to her tank.

a good additional treatment for the fungus would be to add some sea almond leaves to the tank (one leave for every 70-100 litres)

as long as she is eating you dont have to worry, she seems healthy and is a very pretty girl!

ad.: it also would be a good idea to change a bigger part of the water and clean the tank asap to make sure that whatever caused the fungus will be removed from the tank.

inkozana · Nov 17, 2008

One teaspoon of salt for every litre is not safe in my opinion. Too much salt can make the fungus and axolotl even worse.
One teaspoon PER 10 GALLONS.
When doing salt baths I tend to fill up a container that is big enough for my axolotl to stretch in, with water about an inch above him and mix in half a teaspoon. The container that I use has about 5 litres in it, so I don't always follow the rule, but less is more in the case of salt baths.

It's not like the fungus is covering her whole body anyway.
Alice, however is right about the water changes. 20% water changes per day will be good for the tank and whatever uglies may be lurking in it.

I'm still not sure this is a fungus though, it may just be developing markings.

thya · Nov 17, 2008

one teaspoon per 10 gallons is considered to be the "permanent bath" you can keep the axo on there over a longer period of time. as i said the intense bath is only for approx. 10 minutes. and save for that reason. :3 because it is only a small fungus i was thinking it would be better to choose the short intense bath so the animal doesnt have to stay in a box for so long.

either way another option would be to put salt directly into the tank, then the "1 teaspoon per 10 gallons" rule does also apply- which option you want to chose is actually up to you then.

inkozana said:
I'm still not sure this is a fungus though, it may just be developing markings.

you might be actually right! maybe it could be just a little injury that's healing or a marking.

probably it would be best to simply clean the tank, add some sea almond leaves for safety and see how the white part develops then.

inkozana · Nov 17, 2008

Putting salt directly into the tank is not advised and has caused many fatalities in axolotls.
As I said before less is more in the case of salt baths. Intense baths will work well the aggressive fungus but this -if it IS a fungus- is very small and obviously causing no visible harm to Squishy.

A fungus this tiny can be cured in a few days safely by 2-3 daily regular salt baths.
The higher the salt concentration the more stressed out the axolotl will become and this will not help with the healing process.
Salt baths of any kind should only last a maximum of 15 minutes, so a ten minute 'intense bath' is still pretty bad.

I do not recommend adding sea almond leaves as it will lower the pH, cloud up the water and possibly be harmful to the axolotl. S/he could injest it if they are in at the same time, or their skin may be damaged by direct contact with the leaf.

Sea Almond leaves aim to kill bacteria, you do not want to kill all the bacteria in the tank and this will not necessarily help with the fungus as fungal growths are not in the same kingdom as bacteria.

Kal El · Nov 17, 2008

Perhaps it's just my eyesight, but I can't see anything wrong with her gills. Yes, they appear to be pale, however, this is most likely because her activity has decreased (i.e. lack of food) while you were away for the weekend.

For now, I wouldn't worry about giving her a salt bath because as Inkozana has mentioned, it could make her condition worse, that's if there's anything wrong with her to start off with.

thya said:
the "intense-bath" would be the best option imho

Keep in mind that more isn't always better. In Squishy's case, I would suggest that you keep a close eye her gills. Avoid the salt bath, and only use it if the fungus develops. Using the salt bath now when there isn't anything wrong with her can disrupt the osomoregulation processes within her body.

Jay.

inkozana · Nov 17, 2008

Jay, I found it hard to find the white spot myself because apparently it is on the right and the photos are taken from the left.

The first gill on the right, at the very top - a small white colouring can be seen.

Kal El · Nov 17, 2008

G'day Stef (is it alright that I call you that?),

I noticed that small white discolouration, but I kind of brushed it aside because it didn't fit the description of a fungal infection- according to me, anyway. It looks more like a lack of blood supply, hence, the white appearance.

Jay.

inkozana · Nov 17, 2008

Yes, I originally thought it was just colouration as Squishy ages. I've seen it before especially in wildtypes whose white spots are more noticeable.
I don't understand how it could be a lack of blood supply unless there is a blockage in which case the gill would be dying.

thya · Nov 17, 2008

in this case i'll agree with the more experienced guys here. see: its good to get different opinions!

either way its better to resign on any kind of treatment if it isnt necessary.

the only thing that vaguely confuses me is the sea almod leave topic, because so far i could only encounter very positive aspects when using them.

Kal El · Nov 17, 2008

I wouldn't say a 'blockage', in which case there might be necrosis of the tissue. By lack of blood supply, I meant that Squishy isn't as active, hence the discolouration. Also, there might be a lack of development of capillary beds in that one location, which isn't of any concern considering the small region in question.

Jay.

kira · Nov 17, 2008

inkozana said:
I do not recommend adding sea almond leaves as it will lower the pH, cloud up the water and possibly be harmful to the axolotl. S/he could injest it if they are in at the same time, or their skin may be damaged by direct contact with the leaf.

Sea Almond leaves aim to kill bacteria, you do not want to kill all the bacteria in the tank and this will not necessarily help with the fungus as fungal growths are not in the same kingdom as bacteria.

I agree with Stef. It is not necessary to put sea almond leaves into the tank, and in fact could do more harm than good.

As for the white discolouration, Kati, I don't think that it is fungus. However, you should watch it and if it gets any worse, post some more photos.

By the way, Squishy is looking great!

Kaysie · Nov 17, 2008

I'm with the others on this. I don't see anything that would cause alarm.

AGreenDarkness · Nov 17, 2008

Wow, thanks guys.I will make sure to keep an eye on her because she seems just fine other than that. Yea sorry the pictures were terrible but she wouldn't move from where she was sitting and if I try to nudge her to move she has like a complete panic attack. I'll keep an eye on it and keep everybody updated. Thanks!!!

AGreenDarkness · Nov 18, 2008

Ok, the white spot has not left. It doesn't seem to cause her any harm though. I got a new filter thing the other day since my other one was way outdated so that should help clear up the water. I also have been keeping up with my water changes etc. and she has some fat juicy earth worms to fill up her tummy. Now all I have to worry about is getting her to my dads on Tuesday. I am thinking I will empty out the tank as much as possible, then scoop her into a container (enough water to cover her?), Then empty out the rest of the tank, put everything into the car. Have the boyfriend hold the container on the way home and then reverse the process. This is how I did it to get her to school, it was quite an ordeal as Squishy feels any touching is extremely inappropriate.

I see all the pictures of people holding their axies, their axies in little clear containers for better pictures, talking about giving them salt baths etc. Anytime I even get too close to Squish while doing a poop scoop she has a coniption (sp?) and swims frantically around normally resulting in several cuts on her tail. Any advice on how to get her into the container (save for making boyfriend do it) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

thya · Nov 18, 2008

you know as long as her behavior is normal and she eats there is nothing you have to worry about.

usually i hardly touch my axolotls as well, i have one picture where my white female is sitting underwater in my hand, but thats it - they arent actually afraid of me though because the bigger they get the more they see my fingers as big earthworms and try to bite me :rofl: it doesnt hurt though.

but i dont remove them from the tank with my bare hands, i have a big net which i carefully put one of them in underwater (i have to touch him/her for that though) and then i slowly lift him/her up, with my hand under the net and slightly around him/her as a support.

i wonder why squishy is that shy? maybe the method with the net works for you... if you try to make really slow and calm movements she probably accepts it.

if you transport squishy make sure that the water fully covers her, you might want to add a lid to the box to prevent her from falling out. :grin:

Kaysie · Nov 18, 2008

You could use a net, or you could try to scoop her up with a container. She may just be afraid of a 'big giant hand' coming at her. Personally, I find it easier to corner them, and just scoop them up with my hands (using both hands). It's quick and they're well-supported.

AGreenDarkness · Nov 18, 2008

Oh yea I will definitely have a lid haha, the last thing we need is for my next post to be explaining how Squishy is somehow lose in my car lol. I will try to get a net big enough for her our just get her with my hands, I have always hand fed her and such so I don't see why she thinks I am such a threat, it could be because she is so tiny and my hand is, well, not. But I will definitely try the things you guys mentioned. Thanks so much for helping me out

Kaysie · Nov 18, 2008

Just go slow. Don't swoop in and grab her, but kind of herd her into a corner and slowly scoop her up. Hold her with your thumb and forefinger around her neck and gills, and the other hand in front of the back legs.

AGreenDarkness · Nov 18, 2008

With my luck I will pop her head off trying to hold onto her. It must be done though. Also considering redoing her tank after christmas. I was thinking of getting some red sand, and some real plants to put in. Does anyone know of red plants that are good to put in the tank? Some white hidey spots would top it off to have a cute little axie getaway from my red and white girl. thanks again!

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