Somethings Wrong with My Axie

I've had Axle (yep original name!) for around 3-4 months now and I think something is really wrong with him.

He has not eaten for for over a week which really bothers me because we hand feed every day with feeder fish/meat blocks.

I went to the pet shops yesterday and brought earthworms for him and asked advice whilst there. Guy suggested putting him the fridge - sounded a bit odd - but I am quite desperate and worried he is going to die

He has a 3 foot tank all to himself with about 6 inches of water. Substrate is gravel (as recommended by the place I got him at - i orginally had sand), a cave/log thing and love plants, powerhead filter (i think thats what its called - correct me if i am wrong) and an air stone.

We put 2 big bottles of ice in his tank every morning before we go to work and swap em when we get home.

During the past 2 weeks it has been SO difficult to keep his water cold and I am not sure what to do anymore. I have put a fan facing towards the water - i found this on another website and it said it might help.

His gills are shrinking and he is super skinny from not eating. I noticed this morning that he has a "notch" above each leg - not sure what these are tho - they look very odd.

Axle has no interest in whatever food we offer him and I am getting really worried. Any comments/suggestions you have would be appreciated.

Wow. That's a VERY sick axolotl. I would hazard that it hasn't eaten in two or three months, not 'over a week'.

You need to get him off gravel yesterday. Gravel can cause impaction and death.

You should really have more than 6 inches of water. Is there any reason your water level is so low? I bet your water quality is just terrible. Do you test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates?

Those 'notches', hip bones.

Offer some food. Anything. Earthworms, bloodworms, blackworms, waxworms, crickets, decapitated mealworms, beef heart, liver, pellets, at this point any food is better than nothing.

Pet shops seem to have a habbit of wrongly recommending gravel for axolotls - it's definitly not a good idea. Sand is much better.

My guess is that there are problems with the water quality - I would suggest taking a jar down to your pet shop asap and get them to check it. Even before that you could take Axle out and put him into clean water (if you have a normal household filterer use it) in a clean plastic tub (wash with bicab soda and rinse very well)- try and make it similar water temperature to tank water, put in your treatment for chlorine and check the pH is at 7-7.5 before putting him - do not presume that water coming out of the tap is at pH7, it's often not).

As for the not eating problem I'm in the same boat - my axolotl hasn't eaten for ages either. I really wish i knew the solution to that one. Just make sure water quality and tank conditions are perfect - that's the first step

Took vial of water to the pet store and they said that it was fine and pH is 7.4.

Axle definately has not eaten for just over a week - not months - we hand feed him every day to two days.

This weekend i went and purchased some more feeder fish and earthworm and keep offering them to him, but he just swims away, he normally eats from our hands.

I'm scared that he is morphing and I dont know why. Water quality is ok, plenty of food is being offered. Struggling with keeping temperature constant - but heat waves do that i suppose. Live plants for oxygen and air stone . He has a log to hide/sleep in.

I'm at my witts end and scared he is going to die. Can i 'force feed' him??

G'day, Kagan,

Was pH the only parameter that they tested? If so, this will not suffice. There are other important parameters that need to be tested, namely: ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Perhaps you could post these results on your next post?

kagan1042 said:

This weekend i went and purchased some more feeder fish and earthworm and keep offering them to him, but he just swims away, he normally eats from our hands.

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Have you been quarantining the feeder fish before feeding them to your axolotl? Without quarantine, there is a high risk of transfering diseases and pathogens onto your axolotl.

Most people like to feed their axolotls by hand because they think it's easier, and they can keep a good watch on where the food goes, espeically if it is uneaten. The problem with this method is that you can't guarantee that your hands are completely sterile, e.g. free of lotions, perfumes, bacteria, etc. You're better off using a tongs to feed the axolotl.

I'm scared that he is morphing and I dont know why. Water quality is ok, plenty of food is being offered. Struggling with keeping temperature constant - but heat waves do that i suppose. Live plants for oxygen and air stone . He has a log to hide/sleep in.

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Your axolotl isn't morphing. It is, however, severely emaciated.

If you're having difficulty with maintaining a stable and suitable temperature, it's best that you pop your axolotl into the fridge. I, too, raised an eyebrow when I first heard of this treatment. Here's an article that goes through the steps of refrigeration, and if you follow them accordingly, you shouldn't have any problems:

http://bigapple.uky.edu/~axolotl/pdf/28large.pdf

The details are listed on pages 18 and 19. You will also have to keep a bottle dechlorinated bottle in the fridge, which will be used to replace the old container water on a daily (100% not 20% water change) basis. It is also ideal to wrap the container in a tea towel, which will keep the fridge light (and other stressors) from disturbing your axolotl.

One thing you have to bear in mind is that your axolotl's metabolism will slow down when it's in the fridge, so it will be less likely to eat. But this doesn't mean you shouldn't try to feed your axolotl while it's in the fridge. You can still tempt it with an earthworm or any other available food Kaysie has mentioned above. If it doesn't take up the food, remove it immediately so it doesn't foul up the water. It'll be more practical to try feeding it before you do the daily water change.

Can i 'force feed' him??

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Personally, I don't think this is a very good idea because you should be trying to minimise all contact with an axolotl, not the reverse. And, also because you could injure the axolotl in the process. You said that axolotl has not eaten for a week. Most adult axolots can go without food for a few weeks.

While your axolotl is recovering in the fridge, you can endeavour to purchase play sand to replace the gravel. You will also have to raise the water level in your tank. All these changes will most likely bring about another nitrification cycle in your tank, but it's all for the greater good.

Jay.

Thank you so much for that Jay. I will get my partner to fridge Axie today and we will set up his tank again with sand. - i had problems with sand before, no matter how much we washed it, it just wasn't washed enough. Can you buy aquarium sand that is clean and requires minimal washing??

Also is the filter playing a big role in the temp?? Can you recommend one that won't emit as much heat?

Whats the best way to quarantine the feeder fish? We simply put them in a small tank of their own for a few days and watch to see if any die etc.

Feeder fish should be quarantined for at least 30 days.

But why bother with feeder fish when earthworms are cheaper, more nutritious, and easier for your animal to catch?

Hi Kagan,

kagan1042 said:

Thank you so much for that Jay. I will get my partner to fridge Axie today and we will set up his tank again with sand. - i had problems with sand before, no matter how much we washed it, it just wasn't washed enough. Can you buy aquarium sand that is clean and requires minimal washing??

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What sort of sand were you using?

Children's Play Sand is the best sand as it is very cheap and above all 'safe' as this sand has been desiged and sterilized for use by children; who like axolotls eat things they know they shouldn't but do anyway and should it be eaten it will pass through easily with no discomfort.

- I purchased a 20kg bag of sand from Bunnings for about $6 AUD, this was enough substrate for three large tanks and I had sand left over for some potholes on the garden path .

Another cheap option is Pool Filter Sand - highly recommended by many members of this forum who prefer it over PlaySand as it has a more 'natural' look apparently.

Aquarium sand is another option, but tends to be very expensive and you need to ensure it is for 'fresh water' aquariums not for 'tropical'.

Whichever sand you opt for, it will need to be rinsed thoroughly before being added to the aquarium - there is no avoiding this even for aquarium sand.

For my playsand, I used the bucket method to rinse it well. Put sand in bucket, pour in water, rattle your hand through the sand to stir it up, pour the water out and repeat until water runoff is clear.

To prevent the cloudiness:

After you have plopped the cleaned sand in the tank, place a plate/bowl on top of it. When pouring in the water, direct the flow from the bucket so it hits the plate and not the sand beneath - this should prevent cloudiness.

kagan1042 said:

Also is the filter playing a big role in the temp?? Can you recommend one that won't emit as much heat?

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I used to use internal powerhead filters, but found they can raise the tank water temperature 1-3 degrees celcius (those few degrees can be critical particuarly in Summer) as the motor is generating heat and this disperses into the water. Living in Australia, we have enough problems keeping the temperature down without an extra helping from a filter.

I now use external canister filters for the axolotl tanks, these are the most expensive filters however.

Another option are the waterfall filters - I think these price fairly similar to the internal powerhead filters (quite cheap) - I stress 'I think' as I have never purchased one and my knowledge comes from conducting a quick price comparison on an online aquarium store. I'm sure someone on the forum will correct me with a vengeance if I'm wrong on this and my five minute research has been in vain lol...

kagan1042 said:

Whats the best way to quarantine the feeder fish? We simply put them in a small tank of their own for a few days and watch to see if any die etc.

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Any introduction to the tank, whether it be another axolotl or feeder fish should be quarantined for 30 days.

edit: Just noticed Kaysie beat me to it lol...

kaysie said:

But why bother with feeder fish when earthworms are cheaper, more nutritious, and easier for your animal to catch?

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I agree wholeheartedly with Kaysie on this, your poor axie looks like he'll need a lot of help in the 'fattening up' department and he really doesn't look up to chasing food around.

For further information on the benefits of feeding worms to axolotls I would suggest you read this article: worms.

This article gives a good rundown on expanding the menu for your axolotl: appropriate food for axolotls.

Kal El said:

Was pH the only parameter that they tested? If so, this will not suffice. There are other important parameters that need to be tested, namely: ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Perhaps you could post these results on your next post?

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Have you had the water tested for the parameters Kal El has mentioned above? If the water quality is off, the axolotl is not going to be inclined to eat. The most important test is for Ammonia. If the reading is higher than '0' in either Ammonia or Nitrite - this is highly toxic water and will put the axolotl off food and make him very sick due to toxidity.

How frequently have you been conducting partial water changes and how much water were you replacing each time?

You mentioned you keep him on gravel. Gravel is a menace on many fronts as it can cause the great discomfort of impaction and even death to the poor axolotl who will ingest it and it is a real nuisance to keep clean!

A lot of muck accumulates under the gravel by sifting down the gaps between the stones and the only way to get the grot out is to disturb all of the gravel and the muck will come rushing to the surface for removal - Adds a lot of work to the tank maintenance and the muck takes no time to befoul the water as it rots under the substrate out of sight and out of mind.

Sand or bare bottom tank are best as the grot sits on top for easy spot and removal.

Good luck and I hope he pulls through.

I used teh childrens play sand from bunnings too- but i lost alot of it whilst washing :S
What sort of sand were you using?


The only reason i gave Axie fish was coz he didnt particularly like the beefheart cubes to begin with, so we 'borrowed' some of the cousins tetra neons. Axle loved them, so we continued getting fish for him and offering beef heart every second day.


He tried to eat earthworn today, sucked it in, then spat it out.

When i took the jar of water to pet shop to be tested, they didnt tell me the results just that it was ok. We tested the pH at home - 7.4

Water changes on Weds and Sun 25% using a siphon to get the gunk from the gravel.

Is a bare bottom tank really ok?? Will it freak axie out?? I know they do not like bright light , so should i put a black plastic over the foam?

Pls reply asap - if bare bottom is ok we will empty tank tonight , clean and fill up and let cycle for couple days - axie is ok in fridge for these few days??

Thank you!

Re: Somethings Wrong with My Axie -UPDATE

Did Axie's first 100% change this morning, and tried to offer him a worm before i did. Axle not interested in food still

Off to petshop during lunch at work to buy test kit for ammonia and some more rocks etc - silk plants too - thanks Jacq!

I will get rob to offer him some more food during the day.

Keep you posted...

Bare bottom tank is fine. Covering the foam with black plastic isn't necessary, but is worth doing (good idea!).

Axle is fine in the fridge as long as you change 100% water daily with fresh dechlorinated water.

Re: Somethings Wrong with My Axie -UPDATE

kagan1042 said:

Did Axie's first 100% change this morning, and tried to offer him a worm before i did. Axle not interested in food still

Off to petshop during lunch at work to buy test kit for ammonia and some more rocks etc - silk plants too - thanks Jacq!

I will get rob to offer him some more food during the day.

Keep you posted...

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Hi Kagan,

Live earthworms can be left in there all day as they are not rotting and releasing ammonia into the tub while they are alive. Worms can live for a day or so under the water. When the worm is dead though, remove it and replace with a live one.

Portion sizes should be about as long as the axolotl's mouth is wide - in Axle's state of health he may struggle with larger portions. It's best to offer small worms so Axle may partake with more ease. If any large worms are offered, these may need to be cut in half.

Wriggling worms will attract the axolotl hopefully to investigate and munch. If you are using dead food, you may need to put it on the end of feeding tongs and wiggle it just a little bit to attract the axie's eye - they will tend to snap at food that moves. Just don't wriggle it too vigorously though as this will frighten the axie.

Any axie poop or left over food due for removal that is in Axle's tub, can be thrown into the tank to provide a source of ammonia for the cycling to process.

You will also need test kits for NitrITE and NitrATE as well as the Ammonia test to monitor the cycle. Don't buy test strips as these lie! The most reliable kits are the test tube kits.

Hi Everyone,

Kagan joined us in the chat last night and will be following this procedure:

In order to encourage Axle to eat, it was decided not to fridge him and he is being kept in the coolest part of the house (in a tub on the kitchen floor) where the temperature is maintained at a near constant 20C during the day. Axle's water will be changed 100% each day with fresh dechlorinated water.

If the temperature climbs higher and the floor can no longer be kept to a safe temperature, Kagan will move Axle to the fridge.

While Axle is on vacation in his tub and hopefully fattening up, Kagan will be cycling her tank by 'fishless' method.

She is leaving the old tank water in the aquarium and will be purchasing the test kits to monitor the cycling as it progresses. The caudate culture cycling article was provided to Kagan last night in the chat - but here it is again if you need it Kagan : http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cyclingEDK.shtml

When you have obtained your test kits Kagan and tested the tank water, if you could post the results that will give us a picture as to what stage the cycle is at and aid us to give appropriate advice as to the next step to take if you need any help with it.

Re: Somethings Wrong with My Axie -UPDATE

Sounds like a plan, Jacq and Kagan!

The only problem I can see with putting the container on the floor is that the kitchen is a high traffic zone, and even if wasn't, the vibrations (i.e., from footsteps) could travel very quickly through the water and stress the axolotl.

Jay.

Re: Somethings Wrong with My Axie -UPDATE

Kal El said:

Sounds like a plan, Jacq and Kagan!

The only problem I can see with putting the container on the floor is that the kitchen is a high traffic zone, and even if wasn't, the vibrations (i.e., from footsteps) could travel very quickly through the water and stress the axolotl.

Jay.

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Hi Jay!

I take your point and agree it's a point of concern, however, vibrations are everywhere. It's very difficult to select a locale where there are no vibrations.

I would think the fridge is probably the highest area for traffic in any household and yet is the ideal place for an axolotl to recouperate, but even in the fridge there are vibrations when someone walks past and when someone opens the fridge door there is a distinct vibration effect caused by the vacuum seal of the door when opened or closed.

The floor of the kitchen was selected as it is the coolest part of the house and the priority lay with getting the axolotl to eat.

It's not an ideal plan as it is situated between a rock and a hard place, but it's all I can think of for Axel's circumstances. Keeping the axolotl in the fridge would not encourage him to eat, and I think he's far too thin for this to be any benefit. Keeping the axolotl in the tank was a no go as the tank temp is 25 - 27C.

I think Kagan mentioned in the chat the kitchen floor is tiled (I'm sure she'll correct me if I've recalled wrong lol), so vibrations should be minimum if at all.

I don't know about you, but for safety's sake the kitchen is the one room where I don't run so my foot tread falls quite softly (waxing poetic now ).

Re: Somethings Wrong with My Axie -UPDATE

Evening all! I was worried about leaving worms in there with him so my bf offered him a worm (cut in half) every few hours. Still no success but he swam up and had a good ol sniff and then retreated to the corner. Now that i know worms can stay with axie, i will continue to leave them in over night incase he decides he is hungry. water is sitting at 20-21 during the day - i still have the fan blowing in the same area as axie to help cool him down. Feeder fish have been given away and tank is at capacity now. Priced all the test kits today $20 and will purchase them thurs night - as the pet shops near my work only had strip tests. We've priced a waterfall filter for $80 and silk plants start at about $5 each. I tried to find waxworms but only one pet shop on the coast sells them and they wont be here til after xmas. We will try bait shops tomorrow and see what we can find.

Jacq i was going to ask you - it is ok for axie to go in my cousins tank? (he breeds fish/snakes/turtles, and has around 30-35 established tanks) I just feel really bad for axie having to hang out in the tub. But i suppose if he is at Matts, i wont be able to constantly watch him :S

normally fine gravel like this doesnt cause any problems at all - on the german axolotl communtiy, sand or fine gravel is recommended.

but i completely agree with kaysie - this axolotl is very, very ill- and it looks like is hasnt eaten at all in several weeks. it is important to keep it in cool water, best in a box with fresh water in the fridge (water change = everyday) and try to feed it with small pieces of chicken-heart or liver which is very nutritious (minerals + calcium) and often used to feed up weak axolotl. earthworms work too.

also please check with a vet if the animal has any kind of infection. if there is no infection you can keep your axolotl outside the fridge in a smaller box with airstone, water temperature should be cold (14-18° maximum) water change is necessary everyday. and always try to offer food -
ive seen axies in a similar condition like this recover, but it is important that it starts to eat soon because the situation is rather severe.

ad.: i forgot something important- do you use any kind of water conditioners?
because it is important to keep them out of the water, axolotl cant deal with the normally used conditioners and often get very, very ill - the use of conditioners results in long-term damage of an axolotls health.

thya said:

normally fine gravel like this doesnt cause any problems at all - on the german axolotl communtiy, sand or fine gravel is recommended.

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Gravel this size is bad for axolotls. If they ingest enough, it will cause impaction, and most likely lead to death.

and try to feed it with small pieces of chicken-heart or liver which is very nutritious (minerals + calcium) and often used to feed up weak axolotl. earthworms work too.

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Chicken liver contains high levels of vitamin A, which can negate the absorption of vitamin D and also calcium. It's not nutritious at all. In fact, liver is no longer recommended as a source of food for amphibians, which includes axolotls.

ad.: i forgot something important- do you use any kind of water conditioners?
because it is important to keep them out of the water, axolotl cant deal with the normally used conditioners and often get very, very ill - the use of conditioners results in long-term damage of an axolotls health.

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I have to disagree with this as well.

Every time you perform a water change, you will have to add water conditioner to the tap water to remove both chlorine and chloramine (depending on where you're from). Without this, you are effectively killing the nitrifying bacteria, and causing another nitrification cycle in your tank. Basically, you will have a sterile tank.

Jay.

gravel size of 1-3mm doesnt do any harm to them at all, the gravel doesnt look any bigger to me. as you may know i myself use gravel with 2-4mm and event his has never caused any trouble.

it is not true that water conditioners are needed, i am sorry. they cause severe harm to the animals. for fish its OK for an axolotl its pure agony.

i think this axolotls live needs to be saved, normally i only see this kind of sickness (starvation + gill regression) when the water is too warm and there were conditioners used.

Hi Kagan

All I can say is the advise given by Kaysie, Jacq & Jay has helped us a lot with our 3 Axolotls, I am not sure what we would have done without them, so if it was me I would follow their recommendations.

I wish you all the best

thya said:

gravel size of 1-3mm doesnt do any harm to them at all, the gravel doesnt look any bigger to me. as you may know i myself use gravel with 2-4mm and event his has never caused any trouble.

it is not true that water conditioners are needed, i am sorry. they cause severe harm to the animals. for fish its OK for an axolotl its pure agony.

i think this axolotls live needs to be saved, normally i only see this kind of sickness (starvation + gill regression) when the water is too warm and there were conditioners used.

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Please DO NOT confuse the issue!

Gravel = BAD Water conditioner = GOOD

Kagan does not need this sort of bad advice right now!!