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Question: Feeding help Please!

RobertsKitty

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As some of you have read I am in the process of cycling my tank with my new 8 week old axolotl baby. I have been feeding frozen bloodworms as fresh are simply not an option where I live. I have noticed that he will not eat the food right as it falls in front of him. Instead he leaves it sit and then after a few hours he will eat them a few at a time. As you can understand this SERIOUSLY messes with the water quality but I don't want to vacuum them up so he doesn't have anything to eat. What should I do?
I have tried hand feeding as well as feeding with the long tong things but no luck. He just wont even open his mouth.
 
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blueberlin

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I have a couple of suggestions that may work for you:

- Move the wee lil thing into a separate container for feeding. Let him sit in his pigpen ;) for a couple of hours, then transfer him back to a clean container; repeat twice daily (or more often, as you see fit).

- Put the bloodworms into a teacup filled with tankwater and lower gently to the floor of the axolotl's container. After a couple of hours, remove the cup (and discard leftovers).

-Eva
 

RobertsKitty

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I considered both I was just worried moving twice a day would be quite stressful. What is the best way to move him? I've been using a small net but it takes quite alot of work to catch him. Today I put a small cup in his water and then used the net to work him in...I just don't want to over stress him. The teacup would have the same problem of fouling the water quickly...
 

blueberlin

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I, too, actually think that moving him a lot would stress him. :eek: If you do move him, I would recommend the way you did it - manoever (did I spell that right?) him into a container of some sorts. I always seem to rip tail fins with nets. Also, don't chase him around; if you don't "catch" him at the first shot and he swims away, let him calm down a bit first before trying again. That's pretty much all I can think of to minimize stressing him.

The food won't foul the water that quickly. The main concern is once it starts seriously decomposing, so you want to remove it before that point - it also has little nutritional value or appetizing allure for the axolotl by that point anyway. You might try "only" giving him one hour with the food and in compensation, offering food one time more each day.

Just out of curiostiy, does he have hind legs yet, your little larvae?

edit: I thought of another option. Perhaps trying different foods? I think I sent you this link already elsewhere, so sorry if I am repeating myself, but the Caudata Culture site has an article on microfoods for larvae. Many of these can be cultured at home, and you can order starters for them (eggs, etc.) online. Feeding whole, live worms (or whatever) wouldn't foul the wter nearly as quickly.

-Eva
 
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ianclick

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Hi,

Are you able to change your food maybe trying thin strips of beef heart or liver This will not disintergrate in the same way as frozen blood worms. You could try skipping a couple of feeds also. This will mean your axie will be much hungrier and may take to the food.

Good Luck
 

RobertsKitty

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I have frozen beef heart I dont know if its small enough I can thaw some and check but I read somewhere it is much less nutrician so I didn't want to feed it. He does have his hind legs. My main concern is the ammonia went from 0 to REALLY DANGEROUS over night and for something so small in a nearly full 10g tank to be able to do that didn't seem logical so I assumed the left over worms were doing it. Rick had him on live blackworms (or bloodworms I can't recal) neither of which are avaliable in my area. I thought frozen worms closest to what he was having would be best. Could it be the stress of the move causing him not to eat much yet? I only got him a couple days ago...
 

blueberlin

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Poor dear, you know that you have just got a larvae at a very awkward stage. The stress of moving may indeed be messing with his appetite; so can water quality. First, be assured that your stress level at this point is surely higher than that of your axolotl. :rolleyes:

I have frozen beef heart I dont know if its small enough I can thaw some and check but I read somewhere it is much less nutrician so I didn't want to feed it.

Ok some nutritional values (including beef heart) is listed here.

That he has his hind legs means that his other senses are developing, too, so that he can smell and see and is generally prepared to hunt for food, instead of needing it passed in front of his nose. This is good (i.e., much more practical).

As to your water readings, I am now wondering if you are using test strips - you know, the plastic things you dip into the water? They are not very sensitive and you have to time your reading precisely to get a close estimation... basically, they are totally unreliable. A zero-to-really-dangerous jump seems odd to me, too, which is why I ask.

-Eva
 

Jacquie

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My main concern is the ammonia went from 0 to REALLY DANGEROUS over night and for something so small in a nearly full 10g tank to be able to do that didn't seem logical so I assumed the left over worms were doing it.

Hi Robert,

Just a thought. What's the tank temperature? If the water is toward the warmer end of the scale then the ammonia will be more toxic making for bigger spikes.

As your axie is so small, perhaps you could use the jar method for feeding the bloodworm?

Fill a jar with a the tank water and drop in the bloodworm. Let the worms thaw and wait until bloodworm is settled down the bottom of the jar. Ensure jar is as full as possible, and then gently lower the jar into the water and onto the substrate. Turn jar on it's side and let axie wander in. When he starts to eat, the bloodworm and flyaway mess should stay in the jar. When he's done (or just come back after an hour or so) gently raise jar out.
 

RobertsKitty

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Wow lots of questions to answer. Ok, I am definitely NOT using strips. Always chemical test tube testing for me. I hate strips. The water temp is hovering between 60 at night and apr 62-64 during the day so that shouldn't be it. Today the ammonia went from about .2 to .4 which is more reasonable. I will do another 90% water change tomorrow morning to bring it back down. I have been able to keep it there. The jump before was from .2 to 8 which is just insane. I don't know what happened there. Anyway, I REALLY like the jar method idea! I will try that in the morning. I have work from 12-11 or so and my hubby who I love to death but is kind clueless about my animals has been really unsure how to do the cleanings because I didn't want to make him deal with vacuuming the leftovers and all. With the jar thing he can have the 2 feedings a day he needs. Should I be doing 2 or 3 feedings at 8 weeks? I don't know if his back legs are totally developed yet. They are there and I believe I can see the toes but they are much smaller than the front legs. Will the jar still work? Should I use a clear jar a tupperware on its side? Sorry for all the questions!

Also what if he doesn't find his way in within the hour? I don't want to deprive the little guy of food!!!
Here is a good close up of his legs you can see his back legs in there
http://www.caudata.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5159&d=1231389130
 

geosheets

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Looking at his size compared to the bloodworms, he might be big enough to take on some chopped up earthworms. I had better luck finding blackworms at small, privately owned pet shops in my area. Almost all the pet shops (even the bigger chains) around here carry earthworms.
 

kira

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It doesn't look like the back legs are fully formed, but then again I also have poor eye sight!;)

The jar method is fine and you can use anything for the jar that you can find, just make sure it is clean. Your axie will find the food, just put the jar near the little one!

On a side note, are you sure that you added the right amount of everything to your test tubes when you tested for ammonia? I only ask because I don't believe that the ammonia should have spiked that high in such a short period of time. It may best best to disregard that result. Anyway, a 90% water change is not nessecary if your ammonia is a 0.4, just do a 15 - 20% change. Remember, you want that tank to cycle and it won't be able to if you keep removing all of the ammonia;)

Oh, and as for feeding you little one earthworms, that is also totally fine. Just chop them up.

Have fun!:D
 

RobertsKitty

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Thanks for the help everyone! What is a 'safe' amount of ammonia for the tank since it is cycling. I was brought up believing if there is any ammonia it isn't safe so I don't know on this. How much ammonia=how much water change? I am not sure what I'm doing on that! I've never had to cycle with something IN the tank before so I'm kinda uncertain about what to do!!
 

kira

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Basicly you just need to change 10 - 20% of water each day (20% would be best for you because you have a smaller tank). I normally keep the ammonia level around 0.5 or below so that I don't slow down the cycle too much. You just have to keep an eye on your temperature too.
 

blueberlin

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Hi RobertsKitty,

Something occurred to me - have you tested your tap water? It may have an ammonia reading, too, which would explain why the levels keep spiking after a water change. I am still trying to learn this next part, so someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that chloramines in the water (used like chlorine by water treatment plants) register as ammonia. You can call or visit the website of your local water supplier to find out if they use chloramines - if they do, you will need to use a dechlorinator to get rid of it before adding fresh water to your tank.

Loved the picture, what a little cutie! Your axolotl's hind legs will develop some more, but for our purposes here, you can consider them "fully developed"; i.e., his sense of smell should be developed and he will find that jar of food. :happy:

Good luck to you,

-Eva
 

RobertsKitty

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Thats something I considered too. I checked the tap water a week or so ago and it reads perfect 0 on the ammonia every time. I use tap water dechlorinater on the water I'm putting in so it doesn't have any of that in it.
 

RobertsKitty

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I am currently trying the jar method with bloodworms. So far he has showed no interest in it and is quite content sitting perfectly still and hanging out. Its been in about 20 minutes now. I'll leave it for while longer. Should I try to encourage him to enter or should I just accept he will go in when hungry? I'm about to go change water for the day. Maybe while I do that he will find some interest in the food...
The temp is down at 60 F this morning so I turned the fan down a notch to try and get it up to more of the 62-64 F range.
Still very at odds with the water changes. I changed out 2g (out of a 10g tank) and the reading still reads 2.0. What should I do?
 

Jacquie

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I am currently trying the jar method with bloodworms. So far he has showed no interest in it and is quite content sitting perfectly still and hanging out. Its been in about 20 minutes now. I'll leave it for while longer. Should I try to encourage him to enter or should I just accept he will go in when hungry? I'm about to go change water for the day. Maybe while I do that he will find some interest in the food...

Hi again,

Some axies are quicker on the uptake with finding food than others lol...

If the axie hasn't discovered the food by himself (give him an hour) you can try to 'assist him'. Please give the axie every chance before trying to help him.

When assisting my more 'dense' axies, I very gently position a long handled instrument (such as feeding tongs or other safe long blunt object - NOTHING SHARP!) behind one of the knee joints of the rear legs of the axie and shift his body gently toward a desired spot.

BE VERY GENTLE and don't move or prod too quickly - axies are very easily frightened. Also, DO NOT use your hands to do this - as exposure to your skin will affect the axies slime coat.

If the axolotl panics and does a dash, don't chase him. Let him settle down at his own pace and then try again.

Axies are creatures of habit. Try to leave the jar in the same position in the tank per feed so the axie associates that jar and position with 'food place'. When doing the bloodworm feeding I use a wide lipped jar so the axie will wander in during his or her travels (ie. make it as unavoidable as you can).

Your query on Ammonia and applicable water changes have been addressed in your other thread.
 

TheDoyel

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When my axie reached the point where his hinds legs began to develop I began offering him bits of broken Reptomin from the tip of my finger. I simply did this a couple of times every day, (or until I could see his see through belly was pretty full!). What he didn't eat I simply disposed of right there.

I mentioned this earlier today but another method of removing unwanted food is using a turkey baster. Just push all the air out of it, insert it into the water, slowly move it over to the desired area and let go--allowing the unwanted food to get sucked up. Discard the waste and replace whatever water you took out. However, this is only for the big chunks, not if your water is really cloudy.

Good luck to you! I know how stressful those little delicate buggers can be.
 
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