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Help please i think he is dying

axygirl20

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Please help me someone anyone
my axolotl hasnt eaten in ages and all he is doing is floating im making myself sick with worry.
I dont no what to do neither does the vet please.
Ive tried different food, put him in the fridge nothing
ive another in the tank who is doing fine.
As u can tell from the caps im desperate to get this artical read and really want help
 

kira

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Ok, what are your water parameters - meaning your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?
Are you able to post a photo of your axolotl?
What is the temperture in you tank?
Do you have any rocks or pebbles in your tank?
Does this axolotl have a tank mate? If so what is it?
Have you noticed any other problems with your axolotl, eg. fungus?

Answering these questions will help give us more of an idea of whats going on.:eek:
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

ammonia,nitrate etc are ok checked theses with vet maybe a little high but nothing to drastic.
He looks kind of bloated which makes me think gas bubbles?
the temp is around 20 (im trying my best to keep it down)
his tank mate is another axolotl and there always fine with each other
he has no other signs/symptoms.
he was at the vets monday and she said nothing looks odd other than he looks bloated and his gills are pale are short(er).
the skin doesnt have any problems, ive tried to handle him and fed but nothing is working.
 

kira

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Please don't handle him to feed him. You might damage his slime coat.

Do you have pebbles or rocks in the tank?
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Please don't handle him to feed him. You might damage his slime coat.

Do you have pebbles or rocks in the tank?

i didnt handle him completely more like support and it was done with veterinary gloves for use on amphibians i no about the slim coat and was very careful when supporting him.

yes i have large pebbles. he hasnt eaten any as i checked when at the vets
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

any advice is a must as its making me ill with worry. So not just for my beautiful axolotl but please help me as welll.
otto is my baby and i love him to pieces i need help
 

Jacquie

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Hi Axygirl,

ammonia,nitrate etc are ok checked theses with vet maybe a little high but nothing to drastic.

Any reading over '0' in Ammonia or Nitrite can be deadly to an axolotl. Some axies tolerate the presence of ammonia better than others.

I would suggest you put the sick axie in quarantine to prevent possible spread of disease to the other axolotl.

Take the sick axolotl out of the tank, pop him in a tub of fresh dechlorinated water and pop him in the fridge. The fridge will slow his metabolism so he will not be inclined to eat, but the weight loss will also slow right down which buys you time to ascertain the problem and correct it.

You will need to keep water in the fridge to use for water changes so he is not subjected to temperature shock.

If he has impaction the fridge will help pass the stone.

EDIT: Just read your next post.

If he is floating excessively but there is no gravel in his gut, this takes us back to water quality and tank environment.

Do you test the water for Ammonia?

How frequently do you conduct water changes and how much water is replaced each time?

Is there any water current in the tank? Water movement will stress an axolotl and they will float due to this stress.

If you would like to try to get him to eat, you can place his tub somewhere cool in the house (and above all SAFE) and feed him while he is isolated and in fresh, cool and still water.

If you could wrap the container to keep it dark this will help the axie feel secure and hopefully encourage him to eat - I would leave him a worm and let him eat in privacy - worms can survive for quite some time under water and will not rot while alive.

Keep the water to be used for the daily water changes in the room with him so the water is kept to a consistant temperature.

He looks kind of bloated which makes me think gas bubbles?

I note by looking through your gallery pictures that you have or have had glass pebbles and gravel in your tank. It's possible he may be suffering from impaction - any rock smaller than two centimeters in diameter presents a danger to the axolotls and they can retain gravel for a long period of time before it starts to shift.

As well as the dangers of impaction, gravel and stones will trap a lot of wastes under their surface and if not removed these trapped wastes will pollute the water very quickly wreaking havoc with water quality.

Water quality is most important to an axolotl's health.

Are you shifting all of the rocks around when doing your cleaning? This is the only way to clear the grot out.

the temp is around 20 (im trying my best to keep it down).

If the tank is at a constant 20C, I would leave it be. Fluctuating temperatures can stress an axolotl.

What high temperature is it reaching to make you wish to keep it down? Temperatures over 24C are dangerous. Temperatures toward the warmer side of the scale will also make Ammonia more toxic.

his tank mate is another axolotl and there always fine with each other.

How large is the tank and how long has it been established?

he has no other signs/symptoms.

he was at the vets monday and she said nothing looks odd other than he looks bloated and his gills are pale are short(er).

Loss of appetite and bloated are symptoms of illness.

When you say the gills are shorter, do the gills seem shriveled or are they still feathery?

the skin doesnt have any problems, ive tried to handle him and fed but nothing is working.

Axolotls should never be handled unless absolutely necessary as the oils in our skin can affect their slimecoats - the axolotls slime coat is it's main line of defence against disease.

Handling of the axolotl will also stress him, and while stressed he will not eat.

Are you able to take a photo of the sick axolotl? If you could take side view and top view shots this would be most helpful.
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

wow loads of advice there thanks loads
(from bottom of the reply to top) When handling (it was more support from underneath) it was done with veterinary gloves used for amphibians.
The gills are still feathery (check out my picture of otto it will show how massive and feathery they were) thou stil featherhed there shorter.
The tank is around 3 1/2 foot, and its been established for almost a year.
It is almost always 20oc and very rarley goes above (we used the frozen water bottle method to reduce
temp)
When cleaning i do try my best to make sure everything is moved about and all the rubish comes out via sythen (sorry cant spell very well)
I do weekly and 2 weekly changes. Weekly 10% water change and 2 weekly 15-20% water change.
All stones and pebbles are larger than the axies mouth.
Ialso do 2 weekly checks for: ammonia, ph, high ph, nitrate and nirtite. This weeks results are (in that order) 0, 6.8-7, 7.4, 0 and 0.
I noticed the floating AFTER he come OUT of the fridge, i had left him safely on the side covered up to get his temp up before i put him in the main tank and this is when my mum noticed he was floating.
At 12 last night i rang the vets as an emergancy although im waiting til 3:30 till i can go to the vets. Some emergancy appotiment ARGHHHHHHHH!
Regards to the other i think (and so does my vet) that he may be more tolirant to the water qualities.
Thank you so much for your reply and i will let all know what my specilist says.
Axygirl20
xoxox
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Hi all, just so you know ive still got otto with me, well kind of.
Ive left him in the best possible place, at the vets.
Otto is going to have some x-rays to insure he definatly HASNT eaten any thing including his substrate.
Polly (the vet specilist) doesnt seem to be able to find anything physically wrong with him. Even she is confused. She has written to several other specilist vets and is hoping to get things sorted.
I should know by 10pm (its now 6:15) about the other specilists and hopfully i can have otto home by then to.
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

As asked for these are a few pic's of otto.
 

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kira

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Hmmm...Otto doesn't look good now does he. The vet is the best place, your right.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to appear rude however, those pebbles in his tank ARE small enough to fit in his mouth and if some of those pebbles are plastic (depending on the type of plastic) they won't show up too well on an Xray. Thats just my $0.02.
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Just a quicky, ive had a call from the vet, otto is ok after his xray and didnt need to be "put out" from them. My big brave baby boy :D
Ive agreed to let him stay the night and will get him in the morning.
There going to try and feed him.
Xrays showed no F.B and skeleton etc looks good, mouth, cloaca, skin etc were all checked and nothing.
Its all a blank so confusing.
Xray used was a specific amphibian 3d thingy not to sure on detials though i no its unharmful and shows everything up. Another patient had gone in (not given all details for odvious reason) and via xray found to have swallowed some kind of synthetic pebble.
(Regards pebbles) vet has seen pebbles and doesnt think there a problem, they look kind of small though they arent. The coloured ones were checked with pet shop before they were put in and are for use in fish tanks etc. They are non poisionous, made from plastic, though safe. Thanks for comment and consern.

Am sorry if i have seemed "nasty" in any of my messages or replys, im just so so so worried about my baby boy an appoligise for any upsetting comments.
Thanks everybody)

xox Jodie xox
 

John

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

It's difficult to diagnose this axolotl but two things strike me. Firstly he is anemic. This is often a result of water chemistry (though I suppose it could be due to illness). The other issue that is obvious is that you are using a power filter that generates considerable flow (read death for axolotls). I hope you're not paying that vet - it is one thing to not be able to treat an animal but to not even have a vague clue as to a diagnosis = no payment for that vet (sorry, that's how I feel - if they can't/don't help even with a diagnosis then how have they earned any money? Come on...).

I don't fancy this animal's chances but here is what I suggest. You need to take several measures here (Jacq has already outlined some of them). I recommend you treat the axolotl for bacterial septicemia. There are instructions and accounts of this on the axolotl site and on the forum here - please make use of the search facilities. You will almost certainly have to take instructions from here and bring them to your vet and have him/her carry them out. Secondly you need to make sure the animal can touch the bottom because floating in and of itself induces stress. This is usually done by lowering the water level to just above the axolotl's back (make sure none of the body is exposed to the air). During the treatment and recovery period the animal should be kept cool (again, plenty of accounts of this on the forum), and I wouldn't try feeding it until several days have passed since its last treatment for the septicemia.

Of course all of this will be in vain if you do not solve the underlying cause of the stress that led to this illhealth in the first place. The same is true even if this axolotl dies and you decide to get another.

Good luck.
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Thanks for the reply John, all will/has been taken into account and will pass some infromation onto my vet in the morning. I dont want to sound like im having a-go as honestly im not its a query, there is two in the tank and only one has become ill? this is what is so confusing, regards to the filter what can i do about it and which type of filer is best?
 

John

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

there is two in the tank and only one has become ill? this is what is so confusing, regards to the filter what can i do about it and which type of filer is best?
One becoming sick and not the other almost certainly means only just one thing - one animal succumbed to stress before the other, but if the problem isn't remedied you will have two sickly axolotls instead of just one.

Regarding filtration, there are suggestions on the axolotl site and on this forum. The key is to reduce flow, not so much what kind of filter you have. I use an Eheim Aquaball internal filter in my current newt aquarium because Eheim actually make a spray bar attachment for that internal filter! It's great.
 

Jacquie

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

(Regards pebbles) vet has seen pebbles and doesnt think there a problem, they look kind of small though they arent. The coloured ones were checked with pet shop before they were put in and are for use in fish tanks etc. They are non poisionous, made from plastic, though safe. Thanks for comment and consern.

Jodie,

The problem with gravel or pebbles is that when swallowed by the axolotl, they can block the gut. This blockage is called 'impaction'. While impacted, the axolotl can not and will not eat. Impaction can cause death.

If the axolotl cannot pass this stone, he will likely die.

While trying to pass a stone, the axolotl can also suffer internal damage depending on the shape and size of the stone.

Although plastic pebbles, glass pebbles etc are non toxic and safe to use with fish, they are certainly not safe for axolotls due to the danger of impaction.

If the vet has found pebbles in the axolotl, then there IS a problem.
 

Darkmaverick

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Hi axygirl20,

I completely understand your worry. Im a vet myself so i would just like to give my opinions regarding your axolotl.

Based on the photos, i am very certain your axolotl is anaemic. Meaning, either there is a reduced blood volume circulating in your axolotl or that the blood components (erythrocytes) are abnormal and do not have the proper oxygen carrying capacity.

I would consider four main aspects when it comes to anaemia investigation.

1 - Blood loss - Is there previous injury or trauma? Have you seen bleeding wounds or ulcers? How does the axolotl excrement look like? Does it look black and tarry or have a greenish hue?

2 - Nutrition - What have you been feeding your axolotl? Remember that earthworms, bloodworms, axie pellets and blackworms are probably the only food nutritionally balanced such that you can feed them as staples. Other food types are only suitable as treats and exclusively feeding them other things like fish only or shrimp only will definitely cause malnutrition and possible anaemia. In particular, i also always advise that you feed only non-white fish or feed them very sparingly if you want to include fish as treats. Raw white fish contains thiaminase that can break down vitamin B and can cause a blood defiency over a prolonged period.

3 - Possible introduction of parasites/microbes. Did you have a change in management or husbandry recently? Did you include a plant or introduce feeder fish lately? Could you have accidentally introduce a toxin (aerosol fly spray/ snail or rat bait/ pesticide, herbicide etc)?What i would have done is to get some sample off your axolotl for analysis. I would take some excrement samples and blood sample for haematology, biochemistry and microbiology analysis. These analysis can identify if there is a pathogen causing the anaemia. Some bacteria and parasites obtain their nutrition from feeding on your axolotl's blood, or derive nutrients from them. Some systemic illness and toxins can also cause anaemia. Biochemistry tests can reveal if your axolotl is suffering from an infection, has renal or liver problems etc. that may contribute to the anaemia. You can also request for a blood smear analysis. This can reveal if the axie is suffering from an anaemia due to abnormal red blood cells.

4 - Environment. Water parameters, temperature, water currents, type of substrate, presence of hiding places, any other tank mates etc all can play a role. Excessively stressed axolotls are immunocompromised, inappetant and much more vulnerable to disease.

If i were you, i would try address those 4 aspects and see if you can find out the cause.

Best regards
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Thanks John will be getting a different filter late on today, im hoping to pick otto up later as well. Ive have printed off alot of things for my vet to look at and will certainly not be paying full price for my x-rays :D
Hopfully i can solve the cause of problems before Axel gets ill.
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

Hi ray, thanks for the comment.
Yes anemia is one thing my vet had picked up on too. There are no odvious signs of trauma although he lost a toe a few weeks back but was fine in himself.
He is fed on more or less what you have said beside the pelets.
All my water qualities are stated somewhere in this thread. We have moved house recently although the problems didnt start untill we were settled in.
 

axygirl20

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Re: Help please i think he is diening

I'm sorry to say, but otto sadly passed away whilst at the vets on saturday afternoon. It is a great loss. I am worried about axel as since otto has gone, he's not been out as much.
Im wondering weather or not to get another axolotl, though not just yet, as a friends for axel. He's always had someone else there.
 
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