Fungal infection of gills?

G'day guys. First post here so I'll make sure to post in the introductions section later on, but unfortunately I have a more pressing issue.

I bought my first pair of axolotls about a week before the recent Melbourne heatwave so I've spent most of my spare time lately making sure the tank has been kept cool. During this time one of my axolotls has decided that it prefers to live under my filter than in the shelter that I provided, so it was constantly exposed to bits of debris that were being sucked towards the filter and I'm sure on a number of occasions the gills themselves were sucked towards the filter. I'm sure either the heat or its hiding spot contributed in some way, but her gills became thin and a bit mangy.

Fortunately the heatwave is over and she's found a new hiding place away from the filter, however today I noticed that one of her gills has become white and I'm a little worried. They've also started to become fuller and healthy looking so I was hoping that perhaps the white was a sign of regeneration of the gills, but probably more likely from some other pictures I've seen, it's a sign of a fungal infection. I heard it's better not to do a salt bath before confirming that it's a fungus, so any help identifying the problem and what to do about it will be greatly appreciated.

The other axolotl looks in perfect health, so I'll add some photos of him somewhere other than the sickness forum




Cheers.

Hi Cyamus,

This does not look like fungus to me but does not look very healthy, either. Could be because of the rough spot with the heat wave but can you check the water quality - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate content? What is the temp in the tank now?

-Eva

Hey blueberlin.

Unfortunately I don't have a water testing kit so I can't do any of those tests. I'll make sure I get one shortly and I'll let you know how that goes.

During the heatwave the water temp was 24 during the hottest part of the day, which I could get down to about 21 at night. Currently it sits between 20-22, and I'm working on ways to get that lower without freezing my room. I've made sure to change the water frequently, changing 5-10 L of water a day during the heatwave since I found it most effective to add cooler water to help maintain the temperature (I made sure it didn't fluctuate too much when I added it, at most it dropped by 1 degree over about 10 minutes after adding the cooler water), and about 20% every week.

I forgot to mention, I moved some plants around a day or two before I noticed the white gill, which caused some sediments to be stirred from the gravel around where the plants were (I know, gravel... the person at the pet shop told me it wouldn't cause any impactions, but that was before I read this site. I'll change it to sand at some point). I managed to suck up most of the plant waste but I'm sure I missed some, which might be helpful for the diagnosis.

Thanks for your reply.

Hi Cyamus,

THanks for posting the pictures and giving some patient history.

I agree with Eva that it would be advisable to check your water parameters and temperature. It would also be prudent to continually monitor for other signs of stress and illness such as curled tail tip, inappetance, forward facing gills etc. It is also important that you offer nutritious food varieties to ensure your axie gets all the nutrients it needs for good health and immunity. (Earthworms, bloodworms, blackworms etc.) It is great you are replacing gravel with sand.

Keeping the tank cool during heat waves is indeed a constant problem in asutralia. Here is a link with some methods. Also although keeping the tank cool is important, it is also important to avoid drastic temperature fluctuations. A series of heat waves of over 40 degrees broken up by a sudden drop to 18 degree celsius is an example of a drastic change. This is as stressful if not more stressful than constant warm temperature of around 22 degrees. Although i must agree a lot of times nature is quite beyond our control.

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cooling.shtml

Your mention of the filter possibly causing microtrauma to the gills is a good observation. Trauma to the gills can cause tiny sores and ulceration naked to the visible eye. However these sores can quickly fester due to secondary infection. Based on the picture, i am actually suspicious of fungal infection although some bacteria infection can cause similar clinical presentaion.

My recommendation is for you to fridge your axolotl during this period. Fridging your axie will destress it, boost its immune system and render harmful pathogens (both bacterial and fungal) less viable.

- Set your fridge to about 4-5 degree celsius.
- Put your axie in a container large enough to allow it to stretch its limbs and tail comfortably.
- Fill with fresh dechlorinated water enough to submerge it but not allowing it to float.
- Cover with a lid. You can use a perforated lid or netting to prevent it jumping out.
- Use a tea towel to cover it to keep the environment dark.
- Perform 100% water changes daily with clean dechlorinated water.
- You can pre prepare bottles of water in the fridge.
- Continue to offer a variety of nutritious food daily. Try live wriggly food like blackworms, bloodworms, earthworms. You can also try the usual pellet, offer treats of shrimp and fish etc. Otherwise you can also blend everything in a food processor and then roll the resultant mash into a pea sized ball to try offer your axie. Remove uneaten food within 20 min.

I would try fridging your axolotl for 2 weeks and continually monitor for improvement. Please update on the progress every couple of days.

I would also actually try salt or tea baths because it is possible that the gills have a fungal mycosis. If you are worried that the salt baths could sting or cause discomfort. A tea bath is gentler and has an astringent effect that would treat fungal (and even some bacteria) infection.

This is an extract i found from this link. http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/illness2.shtml

"I mainly use teabaths for minor skin problems. It may also be used with fungal problems but on that account I prefer salt baths. Tea has a slightly antifungal and antibacterial effect (resulting from tannins) and additionally it closes the pores in the skin a little bit (mainly resulting from tannin and caffeine). The skin tightens and gets some kind of protective layer, making it harder for fungi and bacteria to intrude the body. On the other hand it makes it harder for salt or medicine to reach pathogens which are already inside the body - that is the reason I do not use it on fungal infections, although a tea bath is sometimes recommended as a cure for fungal infections by some people.

The medication is as follows: I take one bag of black tea without any additional aroma (it is important to use black tea because this kind of tea is fermented and so it has tannins) for every 10 litres of water (preferably used in a quarantine tank). This tea gets dashed with boiling water in a seperate bowl - I leave it there for at least 10 to 15 minutes so the tannins are resolved into the water. The tea has to cool down and is finally added to the quarantine water. After a week I make a bigger change of water (60% at least), the rest of the tea is removed over time by normal water changes. If you have to make more regular water changes (f.i. in a small bowl or tank) the tea concentration can be refilled. As far as I know there are no negative effects even for long term treatment. A similar effect (although not as strong) may have the addition of dried oak or beech leafs now and then as a precaution."

Cheers.

Thanks for the great reply!

I'll make sure I get the water test kit tomorrow, it's something I've been meaning to do but have been too busy to do.

Darkmaverick said:

It would also be prudent to continually monitor for other signs of stress and illness such as curled tail tip, inappetance, forward facing gills etc. It is also important that you offer nutritious food varieties to ensure your axie gets all the nutrients it needs for good health and immunity. (Earthworms, bloodworms, blackworms etc.)

Click to expand...

The other signs of stress/illness don't seem to be there, both axies eat as much food as I put in front of them. Currently I'm hand-feeding them pellets which claim to be formulated for axolotl growth and health. You can see from the pictures that the gills face forward a little, which is my only other concern. They started facing that way once her fascination with the filter began but typically face a little further back than in the picture. The other axolotl shows no signs of stress at all.

A series of heat waves of over 40 degrees broken up by a sudden drop to 18 degree celsius is an example of a drastic change. This is as stressful if not more stressful than constant warm temperature of around 22 degrees. Although i must agree a lot of times nature is quite beyond our control.

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cooling.shtml

Click to expand...

Fortunately I found that article before the 3 x 45 degree days. I was happy when the tank managed to drop to about 20 by itself, without having to add any frozen bottles, during the recent cooler weather. Is that still too warm over a long period? I know it's towards the upper end of the acceptable temperatures but I was hoping it would still be fine. Looks like I'd better keep rotating bottles.

My recommendation is for you to fridge your axolotl during this period. Fridging your axie will destress it, boost its immune system and render harmful pathogens (both bacterial and fungal) less viable.

Click to expand...

Oh boy, that sounds pretty extreme! I would have thought putting it in the fridge would have been a stressful ordeal, to be used as a last resort, however after doing some reading it sounds like a fairly common thing to do. It could also let me see if they've managed to consume some gravel, it will give me and incentive to change to sand quicker. I do have some questions about it, though.

Firstly I've seen how fast they can move when they get a fright (one axolotl went for a swim and landed on the other one, which caused the surprised one to panic and cover the 4ft tank in about half a second) so is there an easy way to transfer it from the tank into the tray? I can lure them with food, if I lured it onto a smaller tray and then picked that out of the water, would that be stressful at all? The worst thing I could imagine is it freaking out as I lift it out of the water and somehow landing on the ground.

Secondly, I'm still unsure about temperature changes, will the temperature change as she goes in the fridge be too severe? Unfortunately our fridge doesn't have a temperature scale in any useful units, just "Colder - Mid - Less Cold", so I'll have to play around with it for a while to get it just right.

Finally, what's the best way to do a 100% water change? My main concern here is the small period of time between the removal of one amount of water and the addition of the next, is it OK for them to be fully exposed to air for a few seconds or is it best to sort of pour the old water out while pouring new water in?

I would also actually try salt or tea baths because it is possible that the gills have a fungal mycosis. If you are worried that the salt baths could sting or cause discomfort. A tea bath is gentler and has an astringent effect that would treat fungal (and even some bacteria) infection.

Click to expand...

I might try the fridge technique first since, despite my initial thoughts, it seems less stressful on the axolotl, but I have an idea to kill two birds with one stone. If, after a couple of days in the fridge, I notice no improvements, would it be a good idea to perform the salt baths as I do the water change? I could cool some salted water down to fridge temp, empty the tray, add the salt water, empty it and add the clean water again. Do that once every day. Let me know if that's a terrible idea!

Sorry for all the questions but I'd rather be thorough and take the best care possible. My axolotls, and myself, thank you for your help.

Hi Cyamus,

The forward facing gills could be directly related to the stress caused by the gill infection, so it should improve together with clearing the infection.

The ideal temperature for axies would be about 18 degree celsius. A prolonged period of over 24 degree celsius would very likely cause associated stress and illness. I would aim to keep the temperature constantly not more than 20 degrees. Although up to 22 degrees could be tolerated, it shouldn't be over a few days duration. Some axies are more sensitive to others with regards to warmer temperatures so there is varying susceptiliby to heat stress. You would have to observe your axies and see how they respond to different temperatures to have a better idea.

Fridging your axie although seemingly extreme is actually doing your axie a lot of good. It is the most effective yet conservative treatment for many axolotl illnesses. Fridging can also facilitate passing of ingested gravel. If you have yet to switch to sand, you may also consider leaving your tank bare bottomed for easy cleaning.

There are several ways you can catch your axie. The easiest, least traumatic way is to reach in with a container to gently coax the axie in with the tank water. You avoid touching the axie this manner and is quite secure once you put a lid on immediately after getting the container out.

I do not really encourage the other methods of handling axies because axies in general have very sensitive skin. Pathogens on our hands, the acidic pH of our skin can all erode away the protective slime layer on their skin and cause trauma. You can consider using a net but nets can also traumatise the gills and skin. Avoid handling your axie with bare hands. Make sure your hands are clean and soap, pefume, lotion free before trying to catch your axie. If you have 'prime', 'stresscoat' etc. types products, you can consider wetting your hands with the product (almost like a coating glove) before trying to catch the axie.

You can expriment by putting just a normal thermometer into the fridge and leave it overnight. It should give you a general idea of the fridge temperature. You can then adjust it accordingly.

As for changing axie water, actually both methods are fine. Why not make it simpler by having two containers? You can put fresh water into the new container and tip your axie in. Its ok for axie to be exposed to the air for a few seconds as long as the skin is not left to dessicate. You can also 'dilute' out the old water by pouring in new water while draining.

I definitely advise on fridging for about a week first. Sometimes just that alone will suffice and you can see marked improvement. In those cases, there is no real necessity to go on with the salt or tea baths. A convenient time to perform the baths is as you mentioned, during each daily water change from the fridge. You can pre prepare the salt or tea bath solutions in bottles to store in the fridge for that purpose. Please refer to the below link for information on salt baths.

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/salt.shtml

Remember to use only non-iodised salts, such as freshwater aquarium salt, kosher salt. Do not use table salt.

Cheers.

Hi Cyamus,

I have been thinking about your post (well, rather, mine) all day but am just now getting back to the pc. I should have written that the pics you posted do not look like the common fungus that I have seen. It occurred to me and bothered me all day that of course there must be many types of fungus. I should have known that someone else would pick up the thread (thanks Ray) and you would get the help you need.

From your comments I can also see that you have a really good head on your shoulders and I am confident that your axolotl will be fine.

I have a last random thought, though - if the filter intake is strong enough to pull in the axolotl's gills, what is its output flow like?

-Eva

Darkmaverick said:

I definitely advise on fridging for about a week first.

Click to expand...

Thanks for all your help, I'll come back to this later when I'm ready to fridge.

blueberlin said:

I have a last random thought, though - if the filter intake is strong enough to pull in the axolotl's gills, what is its output flow like?

Click to expand...

It's probably a little stronger than I thought it would be, so I've angled it towards the surface so most of the force goes into creating ripples on the surface rather than going towards the bottom of the tank. I've also used all of the extensions on the out flow to try to weaken it a bit. Once the tank's a bit more established I might add some tubing to make it flow out over the entire 4 feet of the tank, which should reduce the flow. Both axies seem fine below it, and I can balance their food on my finger without it being blown off, so I think it's weak enough under the surface.

The person at the pet shop suggested that perhaps the other axolotl was nipping at the gill, but they didn't see the pictures so it might be something else to think about. They also assured me that gravel would be fine, so I'll take what they say with a small grain of salt

I have the water test kit, so I'll post my results tonight once I've tested the tap water and the tank water.

Cheers!

Hi Cyamus,

I did what you wrote to control my water flow - attached a series of spray bars using little sections of rubber tubing and ran them along the back glass of the tank. With a plug in the end of the last tube, this works really well - and looks pretty, too. I have pieces of foam over the intake pipe to buffer its suction as well.

As to gravel - if it is fine gravel (1-3 mm) it will also be ok for adult axolotls, so maybe your pet shop boy is not wrong.

-Eva

Here are the test results:

Tap water
pH: 7.4-7.8
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm

Tank water
pH: 6.4-6.6
Ammonia: 0 - 0.25 ppm
Nitrite: 1 ppm
Nitrate: 40 ppm

From what I can tell, the pH is a little on the acidic side, ammonia is looking good, (it was a lot closer to the 0 ppm reading, but slightly greener than 0), and both the nitrite and nitrate levels are too high.

I'll perform a water change tonight, which I hope will lower the nitrite and nitrate levels. My tank has a reasonable amount of live plants, all of which are healthy and I think are keeping the ammonia levels low.

I've had a read of the articles and am confident that more frequent water changes will be sufficient until the tank cycle is more established (the tank is still only a few weeks old), but is there something more drastic I should do to keep it healthier? The articles didn't really go into much detail.

blueberlin said:

I did what you wrote to control my water flow - attached a series of spray bars using little sections of rubber tubing and ran them along the back glass of the tank.
...
As to gravel - if it is fine gravel (1-3 mm) it will also be ok for adult axolotls

Click to expand...

Awesome, I'll add to the spray bars to keep the flow pressure down. Most of the smaller gravel bits were lost while I was washing it, so I've ended up with sizes between about 1mm all the way up to 2cm, so some bits could no doubt cause a blockage. Since I hand feed them they don't ingest any gravel during feeding, but I'm still a bit worried they might take a bite at other times and consume some by accident when I'm not watching.

I'll measure the fridge temperature tonight and see if it's in the right temperature range.

Cheers

Hi Cyamus,

I am assuming that you measured the water at least 12 hours after doing a water change, right? Your water readings look really good. The nitrite needs to be 0, of course, but the nitrate is well within acceptable parameters. Seems your tank is almost cycled, that last pip of nitrite gone and you're good to go.

Axolotls will sift through the substrate whether there is food or not. It's their version of hunting.

From what I read you are doing everything I could think of. Any news on "Raggedy Ann"?

-Eva

blueberlin said:

I am assuming that you measured the water at least 12 hours after doing a water change, right? Your water readings look really good. The nitrite needs to be 0, of course, but the nitrate is well within acceptable parameters. Seems your tank is almost cycled, that last pip of nitrite gone and you're good to go.

Axolotls will sift through the substrate whether there is food or not. It's their version of hunting.

From what I read you are doing everything I could think of. Any news on "Raggedy Ann"?

Click to expand...

Ah thanks for the reassurance, I felt horrible when I saw 40ppm for one reading. I perform the water changes on weekends, so right now it's basically the worst the tank will get before before it's changed again on Saturday. Since you've said that it's good I might put off changing it tonight and wait until the weekend, just so it's consistent.

I've seen them "hunting" and it's fascinating to watch! So far they haven't taken a snap at the gravel when hunting but obviously I can't watch them all the time so I don't know what they get up to at night. I'm going to look into breeding some feeder fish so they can enjoy hunting those, but not in the near future so I'll deal with that when it comes up.

"Raggedy Ann" is doing fine still (I'm calling her Milli, short for Milli Vanilli No, I'm not a fan!) and I've found a spare fridge to use, so I'll take the temperature of that overnight and see how it goes. If it's the right temperature then I'll keep her in there from tomorrow. It's hard to tell since it's so small, but the white spot doesn't seem to be any worse. I fed them last night and she's still active, so all the other signs are good.

The people at the pet shop were surprised at the thought of putting her in the fridge, so I'll have to let them know if it works.

Thanks for your help, it's great to know I have people watching my back while I get used to everything.

I thought I'd post an update in case people were wondering. After measuring the temperature of the spare fridge several times, it turns out that it's gone and turned itself into a freezer since we last used it, with a temperature of -9 as the stable temperature at the warmest setting. It's really strange, and a shame because I could have had a whole fridge to myself.

I'm measuring the temperature of our main fridge, but I know for a fact that it doesn't freeze anything. I'll put her in the fridge later tonight once I've had a chance to clear a space.

The white spot hasn't changed, no bigger or smaller, and she's showing no signs of stress, so hopefully the fridge will help clear it up!

Hi Cyamus,

Im a tad worried about the fridge temperature. You mentioned at the warmest setting its still reads -9 degree celsius?? Im very suspicious the thermometer is not working right if you have not seen anything frozen at that temperature. Did you use a regular thermometer? Another method is to put a glass of water at where you intend to place your axie. Leave it overnight, thereafter measure the water temperature with a thermometer. That would give you a rough estimate at least of what temperature the water will be.

It would be way safer to first ensure that the temperature of the fridge is a 5-8 degree celsius rather than anything lower. Even at 8 degrees, the cooler temperature is still effective at destressing and making pathogens less viable although at 5 degrees would be much more efficient. Anything cooler and cellular damage (and thats the axolotl's cells) may occur, and that is even worse.

If your axolotl does not show any signs of illness or stress at the moment, there is no hurry to fridge it until you get the temperature sorted out.

Cheers.

I put some bottles of water in the old fridge too, and they froze so it's definitely a fridge problem. No problem, I've cleared a space in the new fridge. The temperature in the new one's about 5 degrees, so it seems perfect.

I'll take some photos to keep track of how she's going.

Edit: Right, she's in the fridge and the transport there seemed to go well. I used some food to tempt her into a container, which she ate once she was in the tray, so it can't have been too stressful. I turned the fridge up slightly so it should be sitting at about 5 degrees. The tray is almost transparent so I've placed a towel over it. Is it better for the lid to be fully closed or left slightly ajar? It's fairly deep so I doubt it's possible for her to jump out.

Hi Cyamus,

Excellent that everything is going to plan. Thanks for also keeping us updated.

The main function of the lid is to prevent the axie from jumping out and contaminants (such as spilling sauces and soft drinks ) from entering.

I personally prefer to use a perforated lid (lid poked with holes from underneath up), or a mesh netting. However, you can also completely close the lid without worrying about oxygen.

The cold water temperature and reduced axolotl metabolism coupled with the daily water changes will ensure adequate oxygenation. (Higher dissolved oxygen per volume and reduced oxygen demand).

I know it is pyschologically daunting to completely close the lid though, so i would recommend the perforated lid. Best of both worlds.

Cheers

Hey guys. I've been away so I've left Milli with my parents while I've been gone, and while they've done a good job, she hasn't been able to fight whatever the problem is on her own by fridging. It's now looking like a fungus as grey/white strings are starting to appear on that gill as well as spreading to the other gills.

I'll start using a salt bath to see if that helps. Most of the salt at home is normal table salt, so I won't use those, but one box contains sea salt which (according to the box) hasn't had anything added to it. Would that be appropriate?

Hi Cyamus,

Yes, sea salt is appropriate for salt baths.

Before commencing treatment, would you be able to provide us with a photo? Sometimes shedding skin can be mistaken for fungus particuarly if the axie is in the fridge in a confined space where the shedding is more noticeable as opposed to being in a tank environment.

Havelock said:

Hi Cyamus,

Yes, sea salt is appropriate for salt baths.

Before commencing treatment, would you be able to provide us with a photo? Sometimes shedding skin can be mistaken for fungus particuarly if the axie is in the fridge in a confined space where the shedding is more noticeable as opposed to being in a tank environment.

Click to expand...

Actually now that you mention it, it does look a bit like the shedding skin, just stringier. I'll put off the salt bath and take some photos tonight when I do the water change.

Thanks for your help.

It's really hard to take photos of gills! Anyway I've managed to get a photo of the grey stuff in the gills, at the tips. It might be hard to see but I'm pretty sure it's shed skin. I tried using the weak siphon I've been using to remove the water from the tray but I didn't want to suck up the gill by accident and couldn't remove any. I was tempted to use tweezers but didn't want to tweeze a gill by mistake. Is there a better way to remove it from the gills?