How often do healthy Axolotl's poop?

Hi,
We had 2 axolotl's for 2 months before the female got sick and lost weight and wasn't eating. The fish shop we bought them from looked after her there for a week, treating her for worms and also with sulphur tabs in the water which made her heaps better. I got her back once she was eating again. Only eating small amounts as her stomach shrunk. Then when we thought she'd be fine, she died. For the week that she was at the fish shop the male stopped eating, so we've treated him at home with the same treatments and he's eating again now, heaps! He wants to eat everything and keeps coming up to the edge of the tank to watch us waiting for food. He used to do this before he got sick, so he seems better now. Only thing is that we haven't seen any poo for a couple of weeks. How often should he poop?

Would it be safe to get another female yet as we want one when he's better. He looks healthy. Seems skinny though compared to most of the pics I've seen on here. But he's always been like that. I'll take a photo tonight and post it on here tomorrow.

We hand feed him frozen bloodworms, ox heart and live blood worms. I also put a neon fish in there with him as the fish shop suggested he would eat this when he was sick and might help him. But the neon seems to be his friend now, they sit together and he hasn't tried to eat him.

He's in a 70L tank with regular water changes and the water has been cycled for a good year. The water conditions are perfect been tested by the fish shop and by me.

Thanks,
Kylie.

Hi Kylie,

Firstly, i hate to say this but i don't think your aquarium shop is giving you the best advice.

1) - The parasite treatments of sulpher given directly into the water is not exactly best practice. It is highly discouraged to self-medicate or treat your axolotl with any over the counter drugs or chemicals. You would also have to pre-determine that your axolotl is indeed having a parasite problem before you even attempt to treat it for that. It is best to let your vet take a faecal culture for analysis first. There are many types of parasites, from helminths such as nematodes to protozoa to ectoparasites. Each of them require different treatment to treat effectively. Wrong treatments besides being ineffective, can cause resistance as well as harm the axolotl, especially with substances added directly into the water where they cannot escape since its their home environment.

2) Feeding feeder fish is fine. However you would need to quarantine your fish for at least 30 days before offering to minimise chances of disease and parasite transmission. You have to also select suitable types of fish such as guppies, minnows and platys. These variety are not aggressive and can thrive in the water conditions suitable for your axie.

3) It is good that you are testing your water parameters and perfoming regular water changes. Those are the most common areas where poor husbandry can stress and cause your axie to be ill. Have you checked whether there is excessive water currents? What is the water temperature? Is it constant? What type of substrate do you have and the pet shop has? Gravel can cause impaction and death. Do you have hiding places provided? Monitor your axie for other signs of stress and illness like curled forward gill, curled tail tip, abnormal behaviour and growths.

4) Offering a variety of food ensures that your axie obtains all the nutrition it needs. Bloodworms are suitable as a staple and ox heart is suitable as a treat. Have you considered feeding other food types such as live earthworms and blackworms, pellets, treats of fish and shrimp etc? A variety of food also tends to prevent digestive disorders attributed to diet such as constipation.

5) I would advice holding off in obtaining another axie first. I read in another thread you do not have another tank set up for quarantine or isolation. Furthermore, your current axie could be sick and you are not too sure about it yet. Its best to have everything sorted out first and then slowly select a healthy axolotl at a later stage.

6) It can be hard to find visible evidence of axie poo as axie poo tend to disintegrate rather quickly. I would suggest that since you are concerned of your axie not being too well, you can actually fridge your axie. Fridging your axie will allow you to monitor his appetite as well as faecal output. In cases of constipation or even impaction, fridging can also help facilitate the peristaltic movements along his gut and help in bowel movement. Fridging your axolotl can help destress it, boost its immune system and render pathogens less viable/proliferative.

- Set your fridge to about 4-5 degree celsius.
- Put your axie in a container large enough to allow it to stretch its limbs and tail comfortably.
- Fill with fresh dechlorinated water enough to submerge it but not allowing it to float.
- Cover with a lid. You can use a perforated lid or netting to prevent it jumping out.
- Use a tea towel to cover it to keep the environment dark.
- Perform 100% water changes daily with clean dechlorinated water.
- You can pre prepare bottles of water in the fridge.
- Continue to offer a variety of nutritious food daily. Try live wriggly food like blackworms, bloodworms, earthworms. You can also try the usual pellet, offer treats of shrimp and fish etc. Otherwise you can also blend everything in a food processor and then roll the resultant mash into a pea sized ball to try offer your axie. Remove uneaten food within 20 min.

7) How frequently your axie poops is multi-factorial. It depends on your feeding frequency and volume, the water temperature, the axolotl's health status, the diet, its age etc. In general, in healthy axies, i would expect some bowel movement at least once a week.

Cheers

Thanks. I will think about placing him in the fridge. Feel a bit weird about putting him in with all the food though. We do not have a separate fridge. We'll hold off on getting another one for now then. He eats everyday as he lost weight and he's now gaining it back again. We think he's back to his old self, everything except for not going to the toilet. I won't take advice from the fish shop again.

There is a constant water current which was a bit strong so we've pointed it towards the glass and it doesn't bother him. We have playground sand on the bottom (cleaned, I researched that on here first). The fish shop has plain glass bottom. He has hidy holes, but maybe I need to get more. I've attached a pic so you can see him. He's missing one of his gill bits on one side, but he's been like that since we got him. Do these grow back?

We do feed him pellets and live bloodworms as well. But he doesn't seem to like them as much as being hand fed the frozen blood worms or the ox heart.

I think his tail tip is a little bent, but not sure if it was like this when we got him 3 months ago. Don't think it was, but didn't really know what I was looking for.

Thanks for all your advice. Please see attached pics and let me know what you think. The first 2 pics are ones I took this morning. He is 19cm long. The third one I took the day I brought them home. I've just noticed he's seemed to have changed colour, I used the same camera, maybe the settings were different.

Hi Kylze,

Your axie actually looks fairly healthy. After looking at the photos, im actually more assured.

In general, its best to provide at least 2 hiding places per axolotl. Of course having more is a bonus.

The gill filaments will grow back gradually if you continue to ensure good water quality and conditions.

The bloodworms are suitable as a food source, so there is no need to be concerned about malnutrition in that aspect.

The tail tip does appear to be slightly bent but it could be an incidental snapshot in the first photo. I would say unless the tail tip is bent over prolonged periods would i consider it stressed.

I think its just a lighting and camera flash issue that made the axie look slightly different.

Cheers

Oh that's great news! We think he looks healthy too. Our female that died recently when she got sick and lost heaps of weight and her filament things pretty much all withered away, she didn't look well at all. I think the treatment for her was too late unfortunately. He didn't get that far. He was treated and then he started eating again and now our only concern is the no pooping. So after seeing him, you don't recommend the fridge treatment then? I don't think he needs it. The temp of the tank last week was around 26 at the hottest as it was REALLY hot here, but normally it's around 23. Hopefully this is okay. He's in the coolest part of the house and the regular water changes seem to keep it down. I did start putting frozen water bottles in his tank every morning, when it was really hot here and the fish shop said not to do that coz it stresses them out more coz the water fluctuates too much. What do you think of this?

So I'll leave him for now and just hope he poos soon. I'll try and make more hidey holes for him. Not sure what to get, I've got lots of rocks in there and a big fake rock with a big hidey hole underneath it from the fish shop. I'll have a look through the tank setups photo's in here and see what else I can come up with.

Thanks. :happy:

Hi Kylze,

Actually fridging your axolotl if done correctly has no harm. In fact, i would actually recommend you fridge your axie for two main reason. Firstly, a temperature range of 23-26 is really on the high end. This is enough to stress your axolotl and predispose it to a multitude of problems because stress can cause the immune system to be weakened. Although i can see you are diligent with the ice bottle cooling, fridging can be a safe and practical way to tide over the heat wave period. Not to also mention, also ease your burden on the constant bottle change.

Secondly fridging your axie can allow you to monitor your axie better. Because it is housed in a container individually during fridging, you can observe to see if your axolotl's condition is improving, if its appetite is good and also any bowel movement. It really would make things so much easier for you.

You can follow the fridging instructions per my earlier post. You might like to consider fridging for 2 weeks and assess accordingly. Even if there is nothing wrong, your axie would be having a cool holiday retreat.

Cheers.

Thank you for all your help!
He pooped yesterday! YAY!

Ox is sick again. Poor thing. He's stopped eating again and lost heaps of weight really fast.
I don't know what happened. He was completely better. Gained the weight back, nearly to his original size and had his very healthy appetite back again. I'm fridging him like was suggested on here. I followed all instructions carefully and placed him in the fridge on Monday the 23rd (2 nights ago). He pooped this morning, I replaced his water as soon as I noticed. He won't eat anything though. He's looking so skinny, it's scaring me. I'll take a photo tonight and post it on here tomorrow. He doesn't look good at all.
Thanks.

Hi Kylze,

Since your axie was recovering well (when fridge previously) and suddenly relapsed again, i suspect there might be something wrong with the main tank environment.

Have you checked the water parameters, temperature, water currents, etc of your main tank?

Fridging it now is a good idea. Don't disturb it too much. Let it rest. I would recommend a minimum of two weeks of fridging.

Continue to tempt it with food while being fridged. Try chopped earthworms and blackworms. The wriggliness will stimulate the appetite. Also try the mash mix if the worms fail.

Cheers.

I didn't end up fridging him previously, he just got better with the treatment I put in his water (that the fish shop sold me). It was sulphur tabs, I'm guessing that was what helped him.
Do I need to invest in a chiller? If so, do you know anywhere I can get a cheap one for a 70 litre tank?
You can see all the details of the tank if you go to the top of the thread.
There is a bit of a water flow. He loves sitting in it. His gills seemed to be facing forward a little bit last week, but now they look normal. I added a part last week to the water flow out bit (from the fish shop) to mave the water flow so it's not facing down to him, it's now flowing into the middle of the tank. The tank is set to the lowest water flow possible, maybe not meant to be for axolotls.

A question: When he's in the fridge, can I seal the lid of the container completely? Some ppl say on here to put netting over the top of the container and some say put the lid on securely. I have been placing the lid on top (not sealing it) and then wrapping it with the tea towel. I'd like to seal it though as he's in our fridge with our food. But I'm scared he won't have enough air.

He still wouldn't eat this morning. Pellets, or frozen bloodworms. I will buy some live bloodworms on the way home today and try them.

Now when I have been feeding him, I've put the food in with him with the day old water for 20mins and then when he hasn't eaten it I've put him in the new container with the new water and back in the fridge with no food. He's not interested in the food at all. But, I'll try the live worms tonight.
So question is: Can I leave the food in there with him for the 24 hours until I change the water next time or not? Pellets, frozen bloodworms, or live worms?

Please see the photo's attached that I took of him this morning and let me know what you think?
I just don't know how he's going to gain weight if he's in the fridge and lost his appetite.

All of the photo's of axolotl's that I've seen on this website look much healthier, all of ours have been heaps skinnier when we've bought them. I'm going to try a different shop next time. I've been given the names of 3 places in Perth through messages on here. They are all aquarium shops though. I'd prefer to go through a breeder, but can't find any in Perth.

Thanks.

Hi Kylze,

A chiller would greatly assist in maintaining a cool temperature for axies. This is especially so for the hot summer months in Australia. There will be less temperature fluctuations and less hassle (no need for ice bottles etc.) once you invested in a chiller. I would recommend you look through the catalogue of different models, prices and specifications for different tank sizes/volumes. Have a rough idea of which models you are interested and then enquire at your local aquarium shop. You can also try the for sale section of this forum or online auction sites like ebay. I highly recommend a chiller if you are able to.

http://www.guppysaquariumproducts.com.au/chillers/cat_27.html

You can actually seal the lid completely when fridging your axie. THe colder water has more dissolved oxygen and the reduced metabolic rate and physical activity means that less oxygen is taken up by the axie. I normally recommend a netting or a perforated lid so that owners will feel more at ease (its more to cater to them psychologically) but you can safely seal the lid tight or loosely capped as you are currently doing.

If you are offering live food, it is fine to leave them overnight, provided you make sure they don't die off beforehand and continue to perform daily water changes in the fridge. You can try a small amount of live blackworms or small earthworms. Avoid huge earthworms as you want to offer something easily consumed and digestible. Live earthworms and blackworms should survive overnight.

Lastly, i hope you are no longer using the sulphur tablets. I can safely tell you that they are toxic to axolotls and by adding them to your tank water. The axie cannot 'escape' from the environment. Furthermore, the sulphur tablets can kill off beneficial bacteria in your tank and throw the water parameters off the scales. I really urge you not to follow your pet shop advice anymore. Also have a test of your water parameters.

Cheers.

Okay, I won't use the sulphur tabs anymore. And won't take their advice.

So, what do you think of the photo's? Does he look really sick? Or will he be okay?

I will definitely get the live bloodworms on the way home and leave some in there for him. And I'll check the water tonight.

I will look into a chiller. Do you think the heat would be what made him sick?

Thanks. :0)

Hi Kylze,

The axie does appear to be losing body condition, but overall still don't look too bad. With proper nutrition and care, there is a good chance of recovery.

Live bloodworms are quite seasonal and hard to get in australia. You can try live BLACKworms.

Heat definitely makes axies sick. It is the number 1 cause of illness in Australian axies. During warm spring, summer and autumn months, i always see a surge of axie patients. Heat can make them go off their food and susceptible to all kinds of illnesses.

Cheers.

Thanks. I bought live Blackworms last night and left them in there overnight and replaced them with new ones this morning when I replaced his water. He's not eating them either. I'll try the mash balls tonight. So I can just use any fish? Like pre packaged from the supermarkets freezers fish.

I'll look on that link and see if we can get a chiller.

Thanks for all your help.

So if he's in the fridge for 2 weeks and he doesn't eat for those 2 weeks, he won't die from starvation? Considering how thin he is already. And when we get a chiller, what is the best temperature to set it on for him? Will he start eating again after we have a chiller working and put him back in the tank?

Thanks for all your help!

Hi Kyzle,

Most fish (deboned) will be fine but try get non-white fish like tuna etc if you can.

Your axie will be fine with eating less while being fridged due to the lower metabolism.

The best temperature to set for your chiller will be anything from 16-18 degrees.

Cheers.

Tuna in oil or tuna in brine?

He's not eating at all though while he's in the fridge. He'll still be okay?

Thanks ;0)

Hi Rachella,

I was thinking more of fresh raw fish. Your axie will still be fine without eating while in the fridge although you should still persist with offering it something to eat everyday.

Cheers.

Hey Kylze,

I'm not sure if you have already purchased a chiller - being that the last post was a week ago - but I highly recommend the Hailea HC-150A. The chiller does not have a pump so you will need to purchase one depending on your filter setup (internal filter / canister filter). I have been using mine for a few months and it is great - it makes for extremely happy axies. I ordered mine online from an Aussie website that provided the chiller at a good price. If you want the details just ask and I'll send them to you via PM.

Hope all goes well,

Chris