a little help with worms

hi all,

im going to try my little guys on earthworms and was wondering if the worms you get as fishing bait is ok to use???

the other thing is worms can be quite long so do you cut them to size? im not sure how much they can take in a mouthful. there about 5 months old i think? ones about 5 inches the other is maybe 4 inches. they were the same size when i got them a month, would that be an indication of there sexs?

cheers for any help

orange

Hi Orangebud,

Earthworms, including those that you dig from your garden as well as purchased from shops, are fine. Just ensure that they are free of pesticides.

You also want to avoid certain types of earthworms such as red wrigglers as they emit a foul substance when chopped, that can turn off some axies.

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/foods.shtml
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/worms.shtml

You can generally chop earthworms into segments about 1 inch long. That would be quite acceptable to most axies.

Different rates of growth does not indicate sexes. It is best to sex your axie when they are about 1 and half years old when they are most likely to be fully developed. Black toe tips in light coloured axies and white toe tips in dark coloured axies indicate sexual maturity. Males have a pronouced clocal bulge and may generally be slimmer with a pointier head compared to females.

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/sexing.shtml

Cheers

Hi, a general rule is you can cut the earthworms in segments as long as the axolotl's head is wide. This way it ensures they can swallow it no matter what conformation it ends up in their mouths. It has worked well for me.

cheers guys, ill get some worms today and let you know how it goes!!

hi all, well they loved the worms but still wont eat unless i hand feed them!!

the worms i got from the bait shop were ok but there was a few dead worms in there, the guy in the bait said to keep them in the fridge??

since the worms i got weren't great i had a look online and found a site called worms direct who do clean worms for amphibians but he said not to keep them in the fridge??

so i guess my question is whats the best way to keep worms??

orange

Hi Orangebud,

Glad to hear your axies love the worms. Do not feed your axie the dead ones, just discard them.

Personally i find the best way to keep the earthworms are to put them in the fridge. I assume your earthworms arrive in a container with peat/soil. You can put in some flaked fish food and a sprinkle of water as well.

Cheers

tran said:

Hi, a general rule is you can cut the earthworms in segments as long as the axolotl's head is wide. This way it ensures they can swallow it no matter what conformation it ends up in their mouths. It has worked well for me.

Click to expand...

Very good answer Tran !!

Hi Orangebud,

I use the same company for worms for my axies. I don't think they're the cheapest, but they're reliable and usually next day delivery.
I keep a small wormery in a lidded storage box, half fill with compost (the worm site recommends peat, but I use potting compost) add your worms and cover with damp newspaper. You can feed them with kitchen scraps (potato peelings etc) but I found kitchen waste gets a bit smelly! I found the smelliest food is cooked veg, it goes really yuk! Raw carrots are good. I bought some dry worm food from a company online, it looks a bit like bran. This works well for me as I keep the worm box in the house under the axie tank.
Also I found when feeding veg the worms created quite a lot of 'moisture' in the bottom of the box. I have now made some drainage holes in the bottom of the box and stand it in a cat litter tray with some gravel in so that the worms don't sit in liquid and drown.
When I was feeding my two adult axies I bought one 0.25kg tub and it would last ages, the worms would breed and I had an endless supply for months! Now with juvies to feed, I'm getting through a lot of worms and demand definately exceeds supply!
This ended up a bit of an essay on worm-keeping! Sorry.
Good luck with your worms!

I think that depends on which worms you have. On the worms direct website it says not to keep worms in the fridge, but those are redworms right? Redworms don't need to be kept in the fridge, just in a cool and dark place. But redworms are the type that secrete the "foul substance" that Rayson mentioned.

But the ones you got from the baitshop are probably be Canadian or African nightcrawlers which do well at lower temperatures (like the fridge) so that's why the guy told you to keep it in the fridge. If you buy nightcrawlers they last longer in the fridge.

And by the way, I've never encountered many dead worms at all when buying them from a bait shop. They come in much more manageable quantities if you dont want to start up a worm farm like Kerry suggested. Nightcrawlers dont do as well in worm farms (or composts, if you like) as redworms do, so that's worth a mention. When you are at the bait shop, ask the people when they get their worms in and buy it the day they get them in (usually they get them in once a week) to make sure they are fresh. Also open up the container and check to see if they are lively and wriggling before you buy them. You will get most (or all) of them still alive that way.

EDIT: forgot to say, thanks Suzy, I try!

orangebud said:

the worms i got from the bait shop were ok but there was a few dead worms in there, the guy in the bait said to keep them in the fridge??

since the worms i got weren't great i had a look online and found a site called worms direct who do clean worms for amphibians but he said not to keep them in the fridge??

so i guess my question is whats the best way to keep worms??

orange

Click to expand...

thanks again for all the help guys, this place is awesome!!!

right a little update.....my little guys seem to like them but have started to regurgitate them back up?? this has happened a couple of times but normally with with the smaller one, but feed them last night and they both did the same!! so i left it last night. this morning i tried them again and the same thing happened so ive thrown the worms i did have away (well not away, in to my sisters garden) i feed them on tubiflex worm pellets this morning and they were really hungry!!!

so ive gone to a different bait shop today to get some new worms and the guy said they were the smaller dendrobaena type and they looked alot more healthy than the last lot!!!

do you think its cos the worms were bad?? or another reason?? my tank levels are all fine so i dont think its that. i really want to get on the worms cos its sooooo much easier than the blood worm i normally give them!!!

cheers
orange

Sorry but I have to chime in again. I know what you mean...this happened to me too at first!

So they eat a lot the first day right, like A LOT, and then the second day they spit some up, and the third day they dont even touch it or they spit all of them up. It sounds similar to what you are experiencing.

So I thought...1) nightcrawlers are huge, and the worm size is too big in diameter so they cant close their mouths 2) they are just not hungry after consuming so much the first day 3) the worms have decayed slightly on the inside and they can smell it!

so to solve problem 1) For the huge worms, I not only cut them in segments, but also in half lengthwise. It's pretty gross, but now I'm used to it, haha (speaking from the point of view of a former worm-aphobe!) Ok so I cut them in segments using a razor, then scrape the razor down their length to force any poopy material from their insides out (theres a lot of poopy material that squirts out, again, GROSS), and then cut them in half lengthwise. Mine eat them better this way.

To solve problem 2) if they are not too young, feed them every 2 days. A hungry axie will eat anything

To solve problem 3) after you cut them and degut them, rinse them *really* well with fresh dechlorinated water. The water actually turns a little yellow. This might have gotten rid of some offensive smells.

So my axies now will eat worms every day that have been in the fridge for weeks. The worm is still moving, but perhaps not in the best condition. I can't smell them or anything but the axies probably can.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will post and say "this is not necessary I've got a better solution" !:happy: It will be so much easier when our axies have grown and can eat the whole worm.

But if you are think it doesn't sound too crazy then give it a shot. I can't say this works for everyone but it does for me...

thanks tran, your right it does sound gross!! but if thats what it takes to them happy lol

im just about to do a water change so try it when im done

wish me luck

orange

Hi Orangebud,

You can actually just soak the earthworms in 30min in some clean water to purge them before feeding the axie.

Cheers.

hey all,

yet another update!! i got some new worms that seem to look a bit better than the last lot but have tried them on the new ones a ew times with no luck.

i got home from work about 2 hours ago and my little guys are not looking good!!! there very quiet and seem to white stuff on there gills i cant see very well at the mo as there hiding ive just tested the water and its fine so its got to be from the worms. please help!!!

Hi Orangebud,

Your axie might have a fungal infection on its gills. That would cause it to lose its appetite so the worms have nothing to do with it.

You would have to fridge and perform salt baths on the axie to treat fungal infections.

http://www.caudata.org/axolotl-sanctuary/Fridging.shtml

Fridging your axie will destress it, boost its immune system and render harmful pathogens (both bacterial and fungal) less viable.

- Set your fridge to about 5 degree celsius.
- Put your axie in a container large enough to allow it to stretch its limbs and tail comfortably.
- Fill with fresh dechlorinated water enough to submerge it but not allowing it to float.
- Cover with a lid. You can use a perforated lid or netting to prevent it jumping out.
- Use a tea towel to cover it to keep the environment dark.
- Perform 100% water changes daily with clean dechlorinated water.
- You can pre prepare bottles of water in the fridge.
- Continue to offer a variety of nutritious food daily. Try live wriggly food like blackworms, bloodworms, earthworms. You can also try the usual pellet, offer treats of shrimp and fish etc. Otherwise you can also blend everything in a food processor and then roll the resultant mash into a pea sized ball to try offer your axie. Remove uneaten food within 20 min.

I would try fridging your axolotl for 2 weeks and continually monitor for improvement. Please update on the progress every couple of days.

Fungal infections will also warrant salt baths. You basically

- Dissolve 2-3 flat teaspoonfuls of non iodised salt such as freshwater aquarium salt, kosher salt or sea salt to a litre of clean dechlorinated water in a tub.
- Do not use table salt, chicken salt etc.
- Place your axie in the tub for 10-15 min but not any longer.
- Prolonged soaking in the salt baths can damage the axie's gills and skin.
- You can do this once daily and monitor for progress.
- You may also gently tease out the fungal mass with a cotton Q-tip while in the salt baths.
- It is normal for the axie to 'struggle' a bit in the baths due to the stinging sensation on the infection site.

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/salt.shtml

Cheers

thanks yet again rayson!!

well there chillin out in the fridge!!

and ive got them some nice fresh cod as a treat.
there in two tupperware pots in the bottom of my fridge i tried to feed them before they went in, one eat a little bit of tubiflex pellet the other didnt eat any. im going to leave them in there tonight and try to feed them the cod in the morning.

whats the least stressful way to change there water? im thinking get him in the net and change the water quickly?? last time i had them in the net they went mental!! so im hoping theres a better way as i know your not supposed to hold them.

as there out of the tank ive had a real good look at them both, there roughly 6 months old one a bit bigger than the other and a bit plumper to. theres little bits of cotton type stuff on there gills but now ive had a real good look its not as bad as i thought, ive had a look at some pics online and i think ive caught it early? they've only been off there food for a few days so im guessing like i said caught it early. i know its difficult to say but how long will they need to stay in the fridge??

the next thing is the tank, the water parameters haven't changed that much so what would cause the problem?? while there chillin out its a good time to give the tank a good clean, so any advice in what to do other than the normal stuff. hints and tips would be great.


thanks again

orange

Hi Orange,

I think the safest and easiest way to transfer/change water while in the fridge, is to use 2 containers.

In the old container, just tip away as much water you can. Thereafer, without the need of using a net or your hands, just transfer the axie from container 1 to container 2 (with fresh clean declorinated water) by tipping the axolotl into it. There might be some old water transferred in the process but its really quite an insignificant amount.

Its best to catch disease processes early and nip them in the bud. I always recommend fridging for a minimum of 2 weeks and continual monitoring. If after 2 weeks, the axie is fully recovered, you can transfer the axie back to the main tank. Let the cold fridge water (with axie) sit in room temperature to slowly warm up before you add to your tank. If there are still traces of fungus, i would continue fridging and salt bathing as long as it takes to completely heal.

Check your water parameters again for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. Perform a 20% water change and siphon out any visible detritus. You might like to unclog and rinse your filter media in some tank water. There is no necessity to scrub clean any ornaments or surfaces.

Cheers

hey all,

time for an update.

impy and gimpy have been in the fridge now for 3 days, first 2 days there was no change. over the last 24 hours they've both pooped ALOT! and the fungus has gone too!!

impy brought up some bloodworm and a little bit of sand. he seems to be doing ok still not eating tho. hes a bit sluggish but im guessing thats cos of the cold.

gimpy (hes only got 2 gills on his left side hence the name) only had poop and sand in his tub, could that be from the poop or regurgitated??

the sand im using is caribbean black extra fine gravel, its like a coarse sand. im hoping this ok cos it looks amazing. i've given the tank a good clean but water testing kit ran out, any suggestions on a new one? the water is slightly murky but i think thats from the cleaning.

should i be thinking about putting them back in the tank now the fungus has gone or should i give a few more days?

every time i go and check on them impy comes over to say hello as he always does but now he looks at me as if to say, come get out of here its bloody cold!!!!

cheers again

orange

Hi there,

Im glad the fungal infection cleared and the axies managed to poop out impacted/constipated material. The sand is likelier to be excreted along with the poop.

Axies love the cold so you do not need to worry that they are feeling miserable, in fact they are happier than before. Provided all the visible fungal infection is gone, i would recommend you keep the axies in the fridge for 1 more week before putting them back into the main tank. The additional week will continue to help rid of microscopic remnants of infection and boost their immunity.

Axies in the fridge may appear sluggish but in fact they are actively fighting infections, healing and regenerating. Nutrients and energy are preferentially assimilated for immunity and healing rather than expended on physical movements.

They do have reduced appetites in the fridge. This is because their digestion also slows down. To tempt axies to eat, you can try wriggly live worms, especially blackworms. Choose food that are small (or cut into much smaller pieces). Offer novel treats (perhaps a piece of shrimp of fish meat). Remember to make them very tiny pieces as that would facilitate digestion. You can try making a mash as in my earlier post to try tempt them to eat as well.

Very fine gravel is fine as long as they are less than 2mm in diameter.

I suggest getting a colourimetric solution based master test kit that contains all the essential tests - ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH. I use API brand personally but any colourimetric type assays are fine.

Murkiness in the tank water would be cleared with a good filter and regular siphoning of the substrate.

Cheers.

ray thanks again your a diamond!!!!!