Cloudy eyes for long time

Hi all! Hope all of you and your lovely axies are well!

One of my axies, Axelina, has had cloudy, non clear eyes for a long time now. I don't know why. She also had a recurring fungus,which is now under control. She hasn't had any fungus for a few weeks now. I used mild methylene blue,salt baths and some garlic in the water to get rid of the fungus, but these didn't help for her eyes, so I don't think its fungus on her eyes. I heard from somebody that it could be a lack of vitamin A, and a turtle A vitamin treatment can be used on axies, but don't know if that is the case.

Tried to take photos of her on my cellphone camera, so unfortunately they are not that clear. Don't have a proper camera,sorry.

But hope somebody can help me on identifying what the problem is, and how to treat her,thanks.

Oh, and the water is fine,ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 30-40,ph 7,6, temperature 14-15C. She shares big tank with my 2 other axies, who are perferctly healthy. Axelina is separated from the others by a tank divider.

Hi Sherrisixxx,

Firstly does your axie demonstrate other signs or illness and stress?

- Curled tail tip
- Forward facing gills
- Inappetance
- Unusual behaviour such as excessive floating, frantic, erratic, writhing, constant gill flicking, mouth opening and closing rapidly
- Unusual growth or sore anywhere on body

Secondly, is your axie shedding skin constantly? Are both the axie's eyes affected or only one side? (I can't see your photos clearly).

Your tank parameters are fine. What do you currently feed your axie? Have you added anything to the tank recently, especially chemicals?

How do you treat your axies with the treatments you listed? Do you use a separate container? What dosage of methylene blue did you use? What type of salt and what concentration did you use? How long did you pace the axie in the methylene blue and salt solutions? Why are you using garlic?? Please stop with the garlic and methylene blue treatment. I would recommend either fridging with clean dechlorinated water or bring it to a vet.

Cloudy eyes can be due to many causes. Direct physical injury, toxin and chemical insult, eye infections, skin shedding dysfunction and dietary imblance.

I need some more general history before we can deduce what is the cause.

Cheers.

Thanks very much for your reply Rayson.

I will try to reply to all the questions as well as I can, so we can get my darling Axelina on her way to recovery asap:

- No unusual behaviour or soreness or growths, but she gets stressed easily, and curls her tailtip.Not all the time,though. And I don't know why she does it, I don't know what is stressing her. I even have covered the other end of the aquarium with a dark piece of material, so she can relax.

- She doesn't shed much skin at all.Very rarely.Both eyes are infected,one of them a lot worse,though. The other eye is only mildly covered, half of it or so. Its always the same with her when she had eye problems in the past. She had similar a few years ago, and I managed to treat it with mild methylene blue baths.

- She mainly eats exie pellets, but also gets frozen bloodworms and things like squidrings as a treat.My other 2 axies eat exactly the same, and are perfectly healthy. Haven't added any new chemicals to water.

- I treated Axelina for 4 days in a separate container with very mild methylene blue. Only about a fifth of recommende amount. I treated her twice a day, and 10-15 mins at a time. This helped get rid of most of her fungus,but not totally. I then did saltbaths twice a day, in a separate small container, with a salt bought from aquarium store, and put 1 teaspoon of it, as recommended in the instructions in the pack for the treatment of fungus.She was in saltbaths 10-15 minutes at the time. If she seems to become stressed,eg,quickly walking back and worth and gulping for air, I always removed her. I put a garlic glove in the tank a few times, as this was recommended to me by somebody who works in public aquarium, and he treats his amphibians with it with good success. At first it seemed Axelina's eyes were slightly clearer, but didn't work after all. Am not giving her any treatment at the moment, not even saltbnaths, as I didn't see any improvement from them.

She is eating well.

I hope these answers will help you to give me an idea about what it could be. I would be so very greatful. Thank you millions and millions again and in advance

Hi Sherri,

Based on the history, out of the five causes of cloudy eyes, i would say physical trauma is least likely. This is because there is bilateral involvement (both eyes) and the chances of both eyes being injured simulataneously, while possible, is still low.

Nutrition sounds good to me as well and i would say its unlikely to be a dietary imbalance. There is no indication to use supplementary vitamins.

Because your tank parameters are sound and you haven't added anything to the tank (plus other axies are fine), i would also say toxin or chemical insult is less likely.

That brings us to infections and shedding problems. Normally, if there is concurrent skin shedding, i would tend to attribute the cloudy eyes to that. However, at this point of time, it seems to indicate that an infection is possible.

Assuming its infection, i would recommend firstly isolating this axie from your other axies. Fridging is always a good idea and i would recommend you fridge the axie with daily water changes.

The garlic thing is really .. odd. Maybe because i practice evidence based medicine, i find such naturopath approaches rather controversial. I am not confident of its efficacy and instead concerned about any potential harm it can cause. I really urge you not to go ahead with the garlic treatment.

Methylene blue however, if used correctly and safely, is an appropriate treatment method for some types of infections. They are more effective for treating some bacterial infections but is not effective for viral infections. Some bacteria are also resistant or the concentration/potency is too low to effectively eradicate all. I would actually advise you to hold back in this treatment for now.

Frankly, i have not seen any viral studies done on axolotls but using first principle, extrapolated from other species, in general viral infections tend to have a less overt /dramatic clinical presentation than bacterial infections. I cannot definitively say for sure because i can't examine your axie physically but i feel there is a good chance that your axie has a viral infection of the eyes. There is no medication you can really give to your axie if its a viral infection. The best solution would be to fridge the axie to destress it and boost its immune system to fight the infection. Keeping the water parameters and nutrition optimum is also necessary.

Thus, to summarise, just fridge, no other treatments. I would say fridge your axie for 3 weeks minimum to see how it goes.

Cheers.

I Like Garlic,

I think that because the allicins in garlic are proven to be very effective in the treatment of Candida based fungus, there is a school of thought that thinks it will work on all kinds of fungi.

It may well do but I have not been able to find any research to confirm or deny this.

However over 4000 years of documented medical use of Garlic would surely suggest "evidence based medicine"

No disrespect intended.

Its also very nice roasted.

Hi again,

In general, most clinicians tend to prefer the conservative approach to treatments. I do believe some natural food around us have healing properties but i think they need further clinical trials and concrete study evidences to safely administer as an effective treatment with minimal harm. This is especially so with exotic species like axies that may react differently or adversely physiologically to otherwise harmless substance/food to humans. Even if proven effective, what would be the appropriate treatment dosage safe enough for axies yet effective enough to curb an infection? What is the route of administration? Normally drugs would be given via an injectable route such as into the abodominal space to deliver a known volume of drug.

I prefer to err on the side of caution. Sometimes less is more.

Cheers.

Many,many thanks for your replies. I will prepare the fridge now, so Axelina can go there tonight, and hopefully her eyes start to improve.

Ps.Ianclick, I don't know the amount of garlic that the man at the public aquarium uses who I talked to. Myself I just put 1 garlic clove in the aquarium.

Will keep you posted.Thanks, Dark Maverick again.

I personally would not use garlic as it can cause problems with blood clotting in humans.

Thank you once again.

Axelina has been in teh fridge since late last night, at 6-7C./ However, before I put her there, she was floating a lot. I have only seen her doing this twice before, and this was a long time ago (Axelina is nearly 4 years old). I gently poked her a bit couple of times when she was floating to see if she manages to go down. She did eventually, and on her way let out a few big air bubbles from her mouth. But when I checked on her again, she was floating again, and the same thing happened, she managed to get down by letting out a few big air bubbles from her mouth. This happened 3 times before I put her in teh fridge. She seems fine in the fridge now, but I just wanted to make sure whether her floating was a sign of a problem, or just because she had been eating bubbles from her airstone?

Thanks again. You are brilliant

I think the main problem with the use of garlic as a topical antifungicide is that it can cause serious rash or burns to human skin so who knows what it would do to axolotl skin

I took Axelina from the fridge last night, because she was lying on her side, then when I poked her, she turned to lie on her back, stomach up. That made me really nervous, so I put her back in the tank, where the temperature is 17C. Should I have just left her in the fridge? She seems to be back on her legs now that she is back in her normal tank. Also, what about her bubble-eating and floating that I mentioned a few posts up, is that dangerous, or is she just playing?

Sorry for so many questions, but I really love her, and want the best for her.
Thanks so much in advance.