Chinese Warty Newt with lost sense of smell!

Hi all

I have a big problem. My newt seems to have lost his sense of smell.

When I first got him he responded to frozen bloodworms. I then tried dwarf frogs and he loved them.

Now, when I try to feed him bloodworms, he does not respond at all. I suspect it may have lost his sense of smell somehow. I tried other foods; worms, bugs, fish food with strong smells, thinking that once in the water he would respond to the smell and check it out, but even when I hang the food over its nostrils it just sits there in the water, unmoving. What could be wrong? It does however, snap at the frogs when they move. That's the strange thing. It's triggered by movement.

But his smell's gone. Anyone has an explanation? What's the prognosis?

Is he eating anything at all? Maybe the problem isn't smell, but sickness. What is the temperature of his water?

its 26-28c. Now before you go ballistic on me, that is the standard temperature for aquariums in Singapore, and in general newts have no problems with the temperature (no previous bad experiences).

I was wondering if it were sick, maybe his nose is blocked... i do remember he shot out some white stuff out of his nostrils after eating one of the dwarf frogs; I never knew if it were frog pulp or phlegm that he 'sneezed' out.

26-28ºC is NOT adequate no matter how you look at it. I undertstand Singapore has a warm climate, but it´s completely wrong for newts.
You may think it´s ok...and that your newts can deal with it but they can´t. Your newts are WC, so they are very likely to have parasites or dormant illnesses. The high temps will destroy their inmune system, leaving them unprotected, and they will fall ill and die.
In fact, your newt is most likely ill right now. If it´s not eating is because there´s something wrong. Temps are the easiest explanation in this case.

You should NOT house the newt with dwarf frogs. The risk of exchanging patogens is a big problem. Plus they require very different conditions, although you clearly are not taking that as something important...

Like I said...

Yeah i know you were expecting that...but we do it for a reason.
You can see yourself how well keeping the newt at those temps and housing it with frogs is turning up...

post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. I'm afraid I do not agree with that conclusion.

Ah yes...loss of smell is a far better explanation. When a newt falls ill one of the first signs is lack of appetite. However, a particularly strong trigger, such as the movement of the frogs might make the newt react slightly...until it´s too ill even for that.
Look...we are only trying to help because we do care for these animals. If you are not willing to accept the help you yourself asked for, well, that´s up to you...
I just hope you realize you are housing your animals in a very unproper way that´s putting their lifes at risk, before they die. Your newt needs fresher temps...ignore that and you´ll see the results.

fiaery said:

that is the standard temperature for aquariums in Singapore, and in general newts have no problems with the temperature (no previous bad experiences).

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i wonder what the average lifespan of a newt in singapore is if this is how everyone keeps there newts out there.

I'm very open to the "could be's" and "maybe's" that would point to the actual reason, but if you're going to jump to conclusions then on what's the use? I think this forum should have an open atmosphere if you want people to contribute to it, instead of having condescending attitude. I'm sorry, unless you've been studying the species for years and have conducted experiments that prove without doubt that the specific species of frog I'm feeding the newt is causing the ailment then no, you are not the final authority on the matter and I really do have a right to disagree with you.

I don't supposed you even live in my part of the world, and make conclusions about the food I'm feeding it? Make suggestions man, not some conclusions you have little probability of being certain of, let me make the conclusion or come up with the solutions. I am after all the one who actually owns the newt with the malady!

You're a moderator, please be moderate in your attitude to others. Giving me a red mark for disagreeing with you? tsk tsk.

Btw, the species have been in the country for years. My first newt I had was in 1991 when I was 12 (C. orientalis was my first newt, the current one is P. Chinensis.). If its anything, its not the weather. Or the temperature. I'm still trying to figure out the problem.

The newt is not trying to get out of the tank. Even as I type it is moving around the tank prowling for food. It is not dying. It just does not have reaction to smell based foods, and I actually do expect the newt to survive, but the behaviour is not normal; it also only takes food (dwarf frogs only) every 48 hours only when before this he would wolf down 2-3 before he returns to his cave. So I welcome any other suggestions.

Environmental is out.

Biological? I agree with Jennewt and Azhael that it could be disease... but, he is active. Although he does not chase (lunge at) the shrimp and guppies like he used to... sort of ignores them.

I was wondering if it could be mating behaviour, and that he is looking for a mate. But I understand because of our temperature the species do not mate in this region. I'm hoping someone with experience breeding the species could let me know if it is a behavior you've seen before?

I´m sorry you find my suggestions to be mere "guesses"...
I haven´t been studying the species at all, i don´t even keep it....but this site contains vast amounts of information, collected through many years.
I´d say that´s good enough to ensure that certain aspects of newt husbandry have been very well explored.
Temperatures are one of the things that years of experience have clearly exposed as a very important factor in a newt´s health. There´s really no much left for experimentation...
I´m not saying the frogs are causing the problem. I´m saying it´s a fair possibility they are doing so. Depending on their origin, they can carry illnesses(among others, the devastating quitridiomicosis) and parasites...and since your newts are from a completely different place with their own inmunnities developed only for local threats, they are very much defenseless against new patogens. Add the shrunk inmune system(caused by high temps and stress from the importation) to the equation, and you get a sick newt.
That´s not just a guess...is something that has happened hundreds of times, and there´s proof around this forum.
It´s not an absolute answer, of course, but it´s the most probable one judging by prior experience.

Dwarf frogs are definitely not a part of the natural diet of any Paramesotriton..so yes, i think they are very questionable as a food source.

I didn´t give you a red mark...i´ve never given any yet, so it was someone else who probably found your attitude and the care you are giving to your newts clearly deserving of a red point.
I apologize if my attitude got out of hand, i get pasionate when i see animals in such a situation.
I hope you read and learn as much as you can, and that you realize you are not providing the newts with what they need to really thrive. And i obviously hope the newt survives.

Every day passes and I'm getting more worried. Please accept my apologies too. I tried live tubifex and mealworms today and he did not take them. looks like dwarf frogs must be on standby for awhile but I'll not feed him for 1 more day and I'll try again. Keep you guys posted.

After 4 weeks, my warty newt is alot thinner and did not eat still... I have resorted to force feeding it, and it is working for now. however, after much research and elimination, I have narrowed the problem to something biological.

The newt itself is fine, and has no diseases. After being forced fed, it has gained back the weight and bowel movements have returned.

The problem only surfaced as the weeks progressed. I saw a layer of dark greenish material forming just a few millimetres below the substrate. It has a gelatinous texture and seems to pop right back the next day after I removed them. I suspect that this is one the forms of the blue-green algae that is poisoning the newt, or affecting his appetite. does anyone have any experience with BGA?

I am thinking of using either copper sulphate based remedies or the blackout method. need some advice, it is much appreciated!

fiaery said:

I don't supposed you even live in my part of the world, and make conclusions about the food I'm feeding it? Make suggestions man, not some conclusions you have little probability of being certain of, let me make the conclusion or come up with the solutions. I am after all the one who actually owns the newt with the malady!

You're a moderator, please be moderate in your attitude to others. Giving me a red mark for disagreeing with you? tsk tsk.

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I don't live in your part of the world. I do know that your location geographically has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is and isn't acceptable as a food item for Paramesotriton chinensis. Azhael is right, the dwarf frogs aren't a good food source for the newts because, like the newts, they're wild-caught (at least I sincerely hope you aren't feeding captive bred Hymenochirus to a newt!) and full of parasites. Sure the frogs are nutritious, but that doesnt' mean they're a safe food for your newt.

fiaery said:

Btw, the species have been in the country for years. My first newt I had was in 1991 when I was 12 (C. orientalis was my first newt, the current one is P. Chinensis.). If its anything, its not the weather. Or the temperature. I'm still trying to figure out the problem.

The newt is not trying to get out of the tank. Even as I type it is moving around the tank prowling for food. It is not dying. It just does not have reaction to smell based foods, and I actually do expect the newt to survive, but the behaviour is not normal; it also only takes food (dwarf frogs only) every 48 hours only when before this he would wolf down 2-3 before he returns to his cave. So I welcome any other suggestions.

Environmental is out.

Biological? I agree with Jennewt and Azhael that it could be disease... but, he is active. Although he does not chase (lunge at) the shrimp and guppies like he used to... sort of ignores them.

I was wondering if it could be mating behaviour, and that he is looking for a mate. But I understand because of our temperature the species do not mate in this region. I'm hoping someone with experience breeding the species could let me know if it is a behavior you've seen before?

Click to expand...

How are you so sure that this behavior isn't from the temperature? Have YOU spent years studying P.chinensis and performing experiments to come to that conclusion? I know a lot of people here have learned that proper temperature is one of the most important factors in this hobby that can be the difference between success and failure.

What is a "smell based" food?

You're still trying to figure out the problem, yes. This is because you've ignored the advice you've been given. No one here was trying to start a flame war with you, but it's very aggravating to see the same questions asked over and over and people like you still don't want to listen.

This is most definitely not mating behavior at those temperatures, I guarantee it.

How do you know your newt is prowling for food? Did it tell you? I think if it were prowling for food it would actually eat the foods you've offered it.

fiaery said:

After 4 weeks, my warty newt is alot thinner and did not eat still... I have resorted to force feeding it, and it is working for now. however, after much research and elimination, I have narrowed the problem to something biological.

The newt itself is fine, and has no diseases. After being forced fed, it has gained back the weight and bowel movements have returned.

The problem only surfaced as the weeks progressed. I saw a layer of dark greenish material forming just a few millimetres below the substrate. It has a gelatinous texture and seems to pop right back the next day after I removed them. I suspect that this is one the forms of the blue-green algae that is poisoning the newt, or affecting his appetite. does anyone have any experience with BGA?

I am thinking of using either copper sulphate based remedies or the blackout method. need some advice, it is much appreciated!

Click to expand...

Force feeding your newt is going to stress it out until it dies. Handling any newt is stressful, especially when it's an unhealthy, imported newt kept in a hot aquarium like yours.

You say the newt is fine and has no diseases? How are you so sure it doesn't have diseases? Did you get a fecal analysis done to prove this? Maybe it's your expert opinion? (since clearly you know more than anyone here)

Copper sulphate is toxic to amphibians.

You're asking for advice, but no one wants to give you any because they see your reaction to the good advice you've been given. I'm no expert, but I've kept a couple newts in my life (yes, including chinensis). If you don't want to take advice, that's your decision. It makes no sense to me why someone would buy a pet without giving it proper conditions, then complain when things go wrong and on top of that, refuse to believe what experienced keepers have to say.

I feel very sorry for the newt under your care. If newts could talk, yours would be screaming for help.

Jake said:

I feel very sorry for the newt under your care. If newts could talk, yours would be screaming for help.

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excatly!!!

tread starter,

i am also from singapore, and i can "advice" you that yes, temperature does make or break it for newts.

most china newts can't make it pass 23*C for long....

cheers!

Hi just to update you, the previous newt that I sought help for had died. However I have had the privilege to have taken care of another one for the last 3 years in a temperature ranging from 25 to 30 degrees. To all those who responded thanks but I think you may want to take a degree in amphibian studies or rear a newt in Singapore before you comment.

Anyways, I have come to the conclusion that it could be the water from the tap was overly chlorinated or that they added something to the tap water that fried it's sense of smell and sight. Leaving tap water to stand for 2 days is not enough. Dechlorinating agents must be used. Also you must change no more than 15% of the water at a time. Hope this will help those facing the same problems in Singapore.

fiaery, no one was trying to make you feel bad about the way you were rearing your newt. You asked for advice and help in figuring out what might have caused your newt to become ill. However when advice was given, you became very defensive and combative to anyone who contradicted what you had to say. This is not a productive attitude to have on this forum.

I personally have no experience in living in Singapore, or raising newts there, however that does not mean any input I put forth is therefore not valid or wrong. Feeding dwarf frogs to your newt is never acceptable! They have the possibility of carrying so many pathogens and diseases, I personally feel that this, in combination with your temperature, was the downfall to your animal becoming sick.

I suggest that next time you ask a question on the forum, think very carefully on whether you want the true answer, or YOU want to be right. Good luck with your other newt, I hope this one fairs better.

Kay.