Question: Need a little cycling help/advice!

Hello, I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to aquariums (meaning...I haven't had one since I had goldfish when I was little!). I am making way for an axolotl (maybe two) in a 10-gallon tank. I read up everything I could and started cycling, although initially I had a bit of a misconception on cycling -- I didn't realize I needed to add ammonia/an ammonia source!

By the time I had gotten some ammonia the tank had been running for about 3-4 weeks (I was gone on vacation most of that time). I added a bit of ammonia, and after reading a bit more decided I needed to bump the level up a bit more (it was at 3ppm after the first add, and added more until it was around 5-6ppm) a couple days later -- yesterday.

But today I started to become concerned. You see, I had bought "clear ammonia" and didn't realize that a surfactant was a soap until doing some further reading today! However, in my reading I was also given the impression that the surfactant would cause cycling troubles.

Here's the thing -- the cycling seems to be going great -- even faster than I expected. Nitrites are already on the rise, and even some nitrates, after I got the ammonia up yesterday (it was down to around 3 again today -- but they're just the test strips, so it's hard to tell -- I have liquid tests on the way to me right now).

A couple of individual stories I have read up on indicate no problems with surfactants, but I figured they are probably in the minority since most of what I see is more along the lines of "No, don't do it!!" (And might be specific to a particularly hardy type of fish, or something.)

I do not have any live plants. I do have an air stone. Substrate is sand.

My questions:
1. Is the apparent "success" a fluke? Why didn't the surfactant kill off the bacteria/why does the process seem to be going okay? Or does it take a while for the bacteria to die? There has been at least SOME "ammonia + surfactant" in the tank since Monday.
2. Is it possible that the length of time for which my tank was running before I started cycling (and the temperature was around 75-80F for the first three or four of those weeks) caused there to be more bacteria? (I was wondering this because I thought cycling was supposed to take more on the order of a month -- but maybe the nitrite to nitrate part just takes that much longer...?)
3. Should I let the tank finish cycling and then give it a thorough rinsing, or should I rinse it all out now and continue my search for REAL pure ammonia (or use shrimp or something) and restart the process?
4. How thoroughly do I need to clean it? I'm assuming the best I can do is rinse and scrub without soap. What about the fabric plants in my tank -- will they still be okay to use with thorough cleaning?

I'm a bit of a proud person so it's hard for me to admit how much (I feel like) I've messed up! But in the end, of course, I am much more concerned with making sure my axies-to-be lead happy, healthy lives!

Thanks to anyone who read my whole long post! (Or even part of it.) Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Hi there,

1 - Firstly, you need to be very certain of your tank parameter readings with a colorimetric solution type test kit. As you are currently using dip sticks, it is very hard to accurately interpret your results. Assuming you still observe the dynamic shift between ammonia, nitrites and nitrates levels with a proper test kit. It does indicate your cycling is well on the way.

Surfactants are wetting agents that lower the surface tension of liquids. There are many types of surfactants and many are indeed toxic to animals. A detergent is a surfactant, but a surfactant is not a detergent. Thus, the type of surfactant plays a part in determining whether its toxic to bioslime or future axie inhabitants. The amount that goes into the tank also plays a part. If only a very minute amount gets diluted in a large volume of water, especially if there is a filter and regular 20% water changes, the impact will be greatly minimised. You can reduce the total concentration of surfactant in your tank by performing small frequent water changes over time. If a very high amount of surfactant is added into the tank, it can adversely affect not only bacterial growth but more importantly the health of future axie inhabitants.

2 - There is no one magic number that will definately indicate when the tank cycling process will be complete. Tank cycling is multi factorial. The volume of water in the tank, the total surface area, ideal temperature, amount and frequency of ammonia source and such all play a pivotal role. In general the larger the tank, the longer it takes for the tank cycling to be fully complete. However larger tanks will provide a more stable environment. The best way to monitor the stage of cycling is via regular chemistry tests.

3 - There are two components to this question. One being the presence of surfactant which you worry about and secondly your own psychological peace of mind. Besides ensuring a well cycled tank, you also want to make sure there are no surfactants left. There are two options. Firstly, you can continue to let it cycle, but perform daily 20% water changes to slowly remove any surfactant left over time. Secondly, you completely start from scratch. The decision ultimately lies with you, which you feel most comfortable doing.

4 - You can still use your fabric plants. In general when you clean out your tank, just a rinse with clean cool dechlorinated water will suffice. There is no necessity for scrubbing. The plants and such provide an increased surface area for bacteria to colonise. These beneficial bacteria will form a slimy layer called bioslime which you would want to retain. Scrubbing, soaps and hot water will kill them and thus not recommended.

Cheers.

Thank you! There is a definite shift up in nitrites and nitrates since I added the ammonia, and so far as I can read it seems that the ammonia has been going down. Here's what I could interpret for how the water chemistry has changed between yesterday and today:
Ammonia: ~3 -> ~.5-1
Nitrite: ~5-10 -> definitely 10+
Nitrate: ~20 -> ~40
The approximate total amount of ammonia that has been added to the tank so far...I would estimate about 1tsp, give or take half a teaspoon. I'm not sure what the concentration of surfactant is, though. (Is there any way to tell?)

Yes, I can definitely feel the bioslime on my fabric plants, etc. You're right, it would be silly to scrub all of that off. I wasn't sure if the fabric would "absorb" any of the surfactant, so I didn't know how big a deal it was. I'll just rinse them.

I think I will try changing out 20% of the water daily. Since I have a filter and haven't added a huge volume of ammonia (and thus, hopefully, quite a small amount of surfactant), hopefully this will be fine. (And if I then get nervous and decide to restart it -- I can rinse off and use my fake plants, filter media, etc. to jump-start the cycle, right?)

Again, thank you! Your advice means a lot to me.

Hi Amanda,

What Ammonia are you adding to your tank? The main thing with tank cycling is that it take time, there are many quick chemical fixes which invariably cause other issues. The absolute best thing for tank cycling is patience.

Good Luck

The ammonia I am adding is household ammonia from a bottle. Its only ingredients are the ammonium hydroxide and the surfactant which has caused me such great concern.

I expected that the cycling would take quite a while, which is why it was surprising me that the nitrites are going up so soon. However, I hear that the nitrite -> nitrate part of the cycle takes quite a bit longer.
I am just fine with waiting as it sounds like the earliest I will be able to get my axolotls will be around the middle of July anyway.

Is it possible that some bacteria had already started to populate the tank before I started adding the ammonia from the bottle? The tank was sitting in a warm place and running for 5 weeks before I started adding the ammonia, and it looked like something had built up on the filter media.

Thanks!

I would'nt use the strips. I had them a while ago, and every time they said the exact same thing

Lacey said:

I would'nt use the strips. I had them a while ago, and every time they said the exact same thing

Click to expand...

Yeah, I just ordered the API master freshwater liquid test kit. The strips were a "birthday" gift from my boyfriend, before he or I knew the difference.

Luckily, they are reading different things for me; the readings are just more difficult to interpret... (I do notice that the pH and hardness readings haven't seemed to change much or at all, but I don't know what to expect of those.)

In any case, as soon as I get those liquid tests, I will start using them instead. It seems like they're more affordable than the strips, too!

Thanks!

Axolotls can tolerate a pH from 6.5 to 8.0, it is best to keep an eye on the pH because it can cause rather big effects on other areas, like ammonia. Yeah, these new tests you have are a lot better. You'll be able to fix everything once you have these I love it when the boyfriends buy useful things for birthdays, rather than some perfume that only your gran would suit! Haha. Good luck!

Yes, my pH has been hovering around 7.4-7.8. The water here is also very hard -- yay!
Yup, I always ask him to get me something useful for me. (He actually got me almost my entire axolotl setup!)

Haha. That's good

I have an update/another question. I got my liquid testing kit a few days ago and have really been enjoying it. Also picked up some "janitorial strength" 100% ammonia at the local Ace and have been using that (and trying to think of something to clean using that no-good surfactant-containing ammonia!). The ammonia-eating bacteria can gobble up pretty much anything I toss at them within 24 hours, so I know that's all set. And I've been doing the 20% water changes to get rid of any surfactant that might still be in there and am feeling really good about that as well.

For some time, the nitrites, of course, have been very high (I add a few drops of ammonia each day to keep those bacteria happy!). They've consistently been testing at 5ppm (the top of the test range of my liquid tests -- could very well have been higher) but today, 24 hours after my last test where the reading came out at 5 again, the test read the nitrites at 0. Are they supposed to plummet just like that? I thought maybe something had flubbed up the test so for the fun of it I tried one of my strips. Nope -- it also read 0 nitrites. (I had changed the water by then, while waiting for the nitrite test to develop, so it's possible that that lowered the reading, but it still shouldn't have gone to 0.)

One thing that I can think of which may have affected it was the fact that I just added some java moss (two days ago). But still, going from 5+ to 0 in just a day seems weird to me! (Never had a tank before -- maybe this is normal?)

I will probably test again later today. Since I just added a bit of ammonia, I should get at least somewhat of a reading on the nitrites after a few hours, right?

Hi Amanda,

I would not use ammonia as an additive to start or speed up your tank cycle. Tank cycling involves establishing a natural colony of beneficial bacteria in your tank to deal with the ammonia. The best way to do this is by adding something live that will produce waste or something like meat so it will rot and produce ammonia. There are many quick fixes and chemical additives to aid the process but by far the most effective thing is patience and time.

ianclick said:

Hi Amanda,

I would not use ammonia as an additive to start or speed up your tank cycle. Tank cycling involves establishing a natural colony of beneficial bacteria in your tank to deal with the ammonia. The best way to do this is by adding something live that will produce waste or something like meat so it will rot and produce ammonia. There are many quick fixes and chemical additives to aid the process but by far the most effective thing is patience and time.

Click to expand...

Oh! I wasn't trying to add the ammonia to speed it along. I read that pure ammonia could be used as an "ammonia source" as long as it is in small amounts (since we don't always have meat around here to let rot). Not trying to do anything chemically to make things go faster than they should. I didn't want to sacrifice any poor fish for the cause, either (why I chose fishless cycling).

I wasn't trying to speed up the cycling or "cheat" using chemicals. I was just under the impression that ammonia was a valid ammonia source...it is 100% ammonia, no additives whatsoever. I have done nothing else chemically in the cycling of my tank besides adding small amounts (~3-4 drops) of pure ammonia and testing the water daily. I'm patient, I promise.

I guess maybe my [most recent] post was unclear? I was just wondering why the nitrites dropped so suddenly. I know there's supposed to be a nitrite spike and then the bacteria should change the nitrites into nitrates, but I didn't know it would happen so all-at-once.

Thanks! I hope maybe I've clarified things. If using pure ammonia is that much of an issue, I suppose I could go out and buy some meat to use...?

Hi Amanda,

Even plant material will rot and produce ammonia or you could put a goldfish in there. I didn't mean to sound preachy, my apologies to you if I did.

All right, maybe I'll go look for some plants to use. Thanks! You didn't sound preachy; I think I just got a bit defensive because I was worried that I had messed things up.