Need some help :(

So here's the back drop. I got my two axies [one leucistic, one wild type] on May 28th. They were 2-3 months old when I got them. So I've had them for about a month. They are in a 20 gallon long, not quite filled to the top. Weekly water changes. Daily cleaning. The light is not on very often. Screen lid with a fan on top, it stays at about 68F. [I wish I could get it lower but when I've tried the temperature won't quite stay stable.] My leucistic has always been a little bigger, never any worries there. The wild type has always been smaller. I just started feeding them earthworms, in the hope that I can more closely monitor their intake. The wild type liked to eat the pellets slowly, so I often have to just throw some in the tank and let them forage. But the leucistic is such a chow hound! The wild type's gills have been shrunken as well. And I thought it was all going to get better since I know they are both eating well with the worms, but then this morning my leucistics gills are shrunken too! What does this mean? I have to get ready for work, and I work late, so I won't be able to post water parameters until late tonight or early tomorrow. But any ideas until then? My leucistic looks a tiny tiny bit pale, but that might just be because most of it's color was in it's long pink gills.

Hi Kenya,

68F is ok for a tank temperature. Loss of gill filaments is usually due to water quality or an over saturation of oxygen meaning that less surface area is required to extract oxygen from the water. Have you done water parameter tests lately and if yes what were they?

Ahhh HOW did this happen??
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 5!
Nitrates 80!

I JUST did a water change last night!! I am freaking out. I am using NovAqua and AmQuel. I let my water sit out for over 24 hours. I did recently change filters, but I took it slow. I took the new sponges from the new filter and let them float in the tank for about a day. Then I put the new filter in but left the sponges from the old filter floating. Shouldn't my beneficial bacteria be okay? Maybe I need to test my tap water. I'll do that now.
But WHAT the heck is going on? As far as oxygen saturation, how does that happen? Like I said, I let my water sit.

UGH

Tap water is fine. I added some more AmQuel and will test the tank again soon. I repositioned the new filter, there's more of a current now but I had a little bit of a film at the surface and I want to get this water cleaned. I'm worried about doing a huge water change without letting the water sit. I know it's got a lot of gasses in it from where we get the water from.


*Sits in a corner and cries*

Hi Kenya,

Those nitrite and nitrate readings are a little too high for comfort. I would do more drastic daily partial water changes (30-50%) until the the parameters come back down to the level tolerated by the axolotls.

I would further suggest moving the axolotls out of the tank in the mean time, until the water is safe. That nitrite reading is of particular concern.

I know, I just have NO clue how it happened! I mean, literally, water change last night!
And I took out like 50% out. I wish I would have done my normal testing before the change but I was so beat from work. UGH. Moving them will have to wait until the morning unfortunately. I guess I will have to fridge them because smaller amounts of water just won't stay cool enough.

I am so confused...

Hi Kenya,

What you can do now is to fridge your axies and then slowly work on your main tank. Have the parameters tested and record the readings in a little note book. That allows you to monitor the trend. Perform water changes accordingly. Once the parameters are more stable, you can have transfer your axies back.

While fridged, you should perform daily 100% water changes.

Cheers.

kenya said:

I know, I just have NO clue how it happened! I mean, literally, water change last night!
And I took out like 50% out. I wish I would have done my normal testing before the change but I was so beat from work. UGH. Moving them will have to wait until the morning unfortunately. I guess I will have to fridge them because smaller amounts of water just won't stay cool enough.

I am so confused...

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Hey there, it's not your fault! These spikes are a natural occurence during the cycling process, and unfortunately a necessary evil.

The axolotls are eating well, and you are addressing their needs.

Hang in there, Kenya!

Hi Kenya,
When you switch filters it is a good idea to cram some of the media from the old filter in the new one if possible. It takes awhile to cycle the new filter. Feeding them earthworms will fatten things up but can also cause a problem. If you bounce around on the food it is tough for the salamanders digestive system to gear up for the food. Switching foods is o.k. but do it in moderation.

I think you are on the right track. Fridging isn't a bad idea. Personally I never do it because my wife doesn't care for axies in the fridge. If you back off on the food a little it shouldn't take to long for a 20 gallon tank to handle the bioload of 2 small axolotls.

michael said:

Hi Kenya,
When you switch filters it is a good idea to cram some of the media from the old filter in the new one if possible. It takes awhile to cycle the new filter. Feeding them earthworms will fatten things up but can also cause a problem. If you bounce around on the food it is tough for the salamanders digestive system to gear up for the food. Switching foods is o.k. but do it in moderation.

I think you are on the right track. Fridging isn't a bad idea. Personally I never do it because my wife doesn't care for axies in the fridge. If you back off on the food a little it shouldn't take to long for a 20 gallon tank to handle the bioload of 2 small axolotls.

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I tried, but the sponges wouldn't fit. That's why I let them float, I just wish I knew to do it longer. And I didn't even think of that, like how you shouldn't switch a dogs food too quickly. I am now feeding a little of both. Pellets are easiest when they are in tubs and not on sand.

They are in the fridge now. The leucistic is already getting it's color back. And I can see a little more gill filament. Will it grow back? My mom doesn't care for them either, mostly because they are in a plastic container that holds over 2 gallons, and, takes up a ton of space. But she must know that arguing with me about it will be a lost battle. The poor woman has two different brands of bloodworms, brine shrimp, and even an ice tray purely for dechlorinated water. Not to mention the axie pellets and earthworms in the fridge. The only huge disadvantage of fridging is that now it's going to be even harder to put weight on my little wild type. The leucistic still eats a little in the fridge but the wild type will do a few pellets at most. UGH.

Off topic, but, are my two from the same parents? With the size difference it seems that the wild type might be a little younger. It's not just skinnier, it's much smaller. Besides, I have no idea why, but I identify the leucistic as female [not just because of the pink gills!] and the wild type as male. And one day if they breed I will probably keep a few eggs and raise them. I know a few people who would love to have healthy axies, there are a lot of really awful mom and pop stores and no one smart trusts them, especially with amphibians. But if they are directly related, I don't know. It would be weird to think of them as both the father and uncle of the babies, you know? LOL.

Thanks to everyone for their advice and especially their support. Though I still feel very guilty, at least I'm not too panicked anymore.
Earlier I went to do a water test, and when I used the eye dropper to put water in the tubes, I saw coloration at the bottom. I feel like I rinse them well, but maybe not well enough. I think it might have been screwing with my results, so I put some plain dechlorinator without additives and such in a bowl and am letting them all sit. And I am about to do another test. Will post results in a minute.

Thanks again everyone!

Hi Kenya,

Firstly, both your axies feeding while fridged is a positive sign. Any amount consumed is good so do not feel that they are losing body condition.

I find female axies appear to put on body condition much more effectively compared to males (anecdotal), but that could be partly attributed to females having a naturally stockier conformation.

Cheers.

Well tonight only one pellet was eaten but the suspected male, where maybe 6 pellets, two mouthfuls of bloodworms, and an itty bit of earthworm were eaten by the suspected female. I know it can't be known for sure until they are much older, but the leucistic has always been round and a fast grower with a fierce appetite. I worry a lot about my wild type. It hasn't really thrived at all... And I've had them for over a month.
I know how to put healthy weight on a rat or a dog, any suggestions for an axie? I tried to put them in a seperate tub when feeding but they were so distracted they didn't really eat. And I just don't want to risk stressing them out until Oliver [wild type] puts on some more weight and grows a little.

OH btw, nitrite's were at 0 and nitrate's down to about 15! Getting there. :]

Hi Kenya,

Live wriggly worms stimulate axies to feed. I really recommend live blackworms.

I would recommend you make an appointment with your vet to test your axie for internal parasites. If your axie fails to thrive despite proper husbandry and nutrition, parasites are a possibility.

Cheers.

Well normally the bit of earthworm wriggles around plenty to attract him, but not last night...

Is there a vet directory of some sorts? It was hard enough to find someone to see rats in my area. I actually have three different vets now. The one I first went to and had to teach that Kitten Revolution would be safe and effective for the treatment of lice on rats [they were rescues and lived in filth before me], the one in Sarasota for surgeries, and the new one who's actually an avian specialist for check ups and medications. -_- But I found two on my rat forums vet directory.

As of right now I don't think there is a list for vets in the US that deal with amphibians, although I haven't really looked either. Your best bet would be to just go through your phonebook and start calling and asking them.

Well there should be! Because the one on my rat forum posts GOOD vets. There are plenty of vets that will see them, but then we end up paying a ton of money to educate the vet.
I guess I will need to do that Friday. Now that I'm even more worried. Though I guess if it is parasites and it's treatable, then that will be a good thing.

Just to add......if your tank is fully cycled i think a 50% water change isn't needed only 20% really too much of a big water change could cause problems with the bacteria in the tank.

Mel