eggs, development

Hi everyone. I shipped twice to one board member as the first batch didn't make it (C.Orientalis eggs) and the second did, was overnighted to him instead of priority mail - used two methods: bottle and CD case and both have had hatchlings.

I shipped to another member and while I had doubts about one egg when shipping, they arrived and 1/2 were opaque and culled. The other four looked good and seemed to start developing. However, all has ceased. Any thoughts? By sending one 'iffy' egg in the CD case, did I jeopardize the whole bunch? Is the female, who looks still very gravid, laying duds since she's separated from the male? I'm still getting some hatchlings and two of the eggs I planned on sending last week actually hatched before my eyes - I think prematurely, but they're OK, as I was clipping the leaves around them.

Any thoughts? We hate to "overnight" them again as it's so costly, but we want the little ones to have a fighting chance.

Dana

Just a few thoughts maybe have the receiver answer these questions:
What are the temps outside for the end user?
What are the temps the end user is keeping the eggs at?
How are they keeping the eggs, sterilite shoe box, open enclosure?
How often is the water changed?
Using methyl blue?

After the first shipment of eggs failed here is what I did. Not sure which if any or all of the worked but I had a much better success.

What are the temps outside for the end user? For both shipments on my end the temp was 65 degrees

What are the temps the end user is keeping the eggs at? First shipment of eggs was kept at 62-64 degrees, on the second attempt keeping them in the house proper at a temp 72 - 74.

How are they keeping the eggs, sterilite shoe box, open enclosure? I used an open enclosure and all sorts of air gunk got in the water. Since switched to a covered sterilite box with no air holes.

How often is the water changed? I changed the water every day 75%-80% and have continued to do so with the hatched larvae. Every three days I transfer all the eggs to a clean sterilized container as I read on caudata culture. Also I am using bottled water from the local supermarket. I have no idea if my water has cloramines in it so insteead of taking the chance, I am using bottled store brand water.

Using methyl blue? Did not use methyl blue the first shipment. Even though there was no sign of fungus on the eggs I decided to take extra precautions and to use methyl blue. 10 drops per gallon of water.

The only thing I did not change, is the only thing I couldn't control, was the shipping temperature. Maybe the shipping temperatures affected my first shipment of eggs I don't know. I do know what I did for the second shipment worked. Whether or not I was lucky or if any of these things actually helped I have no idea. I do know of the 11 eggs I got 7 hatched, and all are turning into robust tads(some more than others). I got four tads to hatch from the CD case, and three from the bottled method. Each method had 2 no hatching eggs. The eggs that shipped via the CD method were the first to hatch out. But the age of the eggs could have been a few days different. All in all it has been an interesting experience. Now on to fattening them up to the morphing process....

I would like to thank Dana for sending me the second shipment of eggs.

No, I thank YOU for taking them and treating them so nicely!

The second recipient said it was very hot the day they arrived. They went to his home and he was at work, but thought it fortunate that he had a midday break and feels he got them just after delivery.

For my eggs here, they're in open containers, but on a shelf, so not a lot of room for things to get in and contaminate the water. You're better than me at religious water changes, but I do take some out daily and replenish it with fresh, aged, dechlorinated water. I've had more duds than usual lately, but still have most eggs hatching.

Like you, some are more robust than others. I can't figure out what causes the runts - maybe just natural selection. None are culled as of yet (of the larvae) and we keep trying to keep them well-fed.

Thanks for your input.

Dana

I would like to chime in here. Dana was very kind and sent me 10 eggs using the cd method. I received them the next day and unfortunately was at work when they arrived. By my guess they were waiting for me between 5 and 10 min. which was around 3:30-3:40 presumably as that is when my mail man is usually at the house. The outside temp. that day was around 96 deg. However, the package they were shipped in was only slightly warm. The inside packing was somewhat cooler.
I placed the eggs in a cycled, fully planted aquarium with water temps around 68 deg. I then did only partial water changes everyday in the neighborhood of 10-15% as this was a full running 10 gallon. I use a small fan up top to keep the water between 65-70 deg. as it varies during the day. The eggs were taken off of the plastic plant pieces they came on and sat in the water on floating elodea and other floating plants. The 10 gallon has a florescent bulb running the length of the tank.
Other than water changes, which was done using treated and aged water nothing else was done with the eggs. After 6 hours 1 egg went bad, quickly followed by a few others. After two days or so, I had lost 6 eggs due to them turning opaque and molding. Now it appears as though I have lost the other 4. I will be honest with everyone by stating that this is the first time keeping eggs and it has been many years since keeping any other newt or salamander. Hope this helps. Like Rick, I would like to thank Dana for sending me these eggs, she is very kind and a great member to have on this board.
Anthony

Curious why did you take them off of the plastic plants?

Was that something that should not have been done? I really have no excuse why I did it. When I picked them up off the paper towels and placed them in the water they really just kind of floated on the surface, so as the eggs were already starting to come off in the water I just helped them a bit by encouraging them to fall onto some floating vegetation. Do you think they should have been left alone? This is the first time working with amphibian eggs. Can you tell me what methyl blue is and how does it work exactly? Effects on eggs? I have tried diligently to read the care sheets and search the forum regarding the species that most interest me. Above all else, if there is a post regarding a search topic that I am working on then posting is my last resort to getting that question answered. The eggs of C.O. from what has been read so far suggests that they are easy to rear. Would you consider this true? Your opinions are most helpful as I am new to this. If you think that it would be wise to raise a group of animals as opposed to eggs at first than I would love to know if this is a better option. Waiting until the end of August to acquire animals is something that I will have to do, but eggs seemed like a good alternative. Thanks.
Anthony

Lesueurii2 said:

The eggs of C.O. from what has been read so far suggests that they are easy to rear. Would you consider this true? Your opinions are most helpful as I am new to this.

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I've raised a number of different newt species from egg and I'd struggle to say that one was harder to raise than another. They all require the same husbandry and food requirements. Water quality & food are pretty much the key to success.

Difficulty rearing Cynops tends to occur at metamorphosis when strong, outgoing larvae become shy, grumpy and retiring. Preparation for the awkward start to the terrestrial phase is almost as important as preparation for rearing larvae.

Anthony,

I wouldn't remove them from the plant pieces. They stay on them until they hatch. This time, they will be largely amongst SludgeMunkey's Java Moss (which has been great!), so I'd just throw the whole thing in the water. I should have probably been clearer on this, but I thouhgt it was discussed earlier on one of my threads - now I think it was via pm w/ my "go-to" people, Azhael and Jen. I read that they can be removed from the plant fragments but that it's very difficult. I think the risk of piercing the egg sac is pretty great.

I shipped to Rick at work once, so as to not leave them in the heat (first time) but to his house to be held at the PO the second time so they wouldn't be sitting in the heat again until he got home. As you know, the first time (two day shipment) had no successful newtlets, so maybe second time is a charm? Since he had both the bottle and CD case hatch, I can try both for you, too, when I get back. Think about where you want them shipped and pm me.

Thanks,
Dana

I wouldn't remove the eggs for fear of puncturing them. Working with frog eggs I have learned puncturing eggs in the end stages before hatching can work out. Tads can usually survive. Not sure on the outcome if this happened to a newt.

Methyl blue is an anti fungal solution found in the freshwater/marine fish hobby. It is purported to have some other medicinal benefits but in my many years have never found it up to some of those claims. Primarily it is used as an anti fungal agent for eggs, though I have performed baths for specimens that I believed were suffering from fungal infections...but that is another thread. I have successfully used methyl blue on freshwater egg clutches, and marine clownfish egg clutches with some good success. The first thing that should be noted is methyl blue is a bottle of blue stain that can potentially enrage wives/girlfriends. So do not open the bottle on any new counters, surfaces or white carpets you care about or more importantly your wife or whoever cares about . Do not dose in an aquarium as it can and will stain the tank silicone, and supposedly will kill any beneficial tank bacteria...I have never tested this out, other than staining silicone, I just took it on face value. Methyl blue is not a shortcut to allow lax or poor husbandry skills. It does its intended task well but if the water changes are not carried out 70-80% on a daily basis, or if old food and debris is collecting in the container then fungus can and will overtake the eggs even when sitting in methyl blue. Even when using methyl blue and practicing good husbandry skills you may still have the appearance of fungus on an egg or two. Methyl blue is good at slowing down the spread of the fuingus so you have time to get the infected egg out of the container.

Anyways it can be found at a good fish store. Do you have any good freshwater mom and pop stores in your area? Strictly reef stores tend not to carry it. When I just ran out I was unable to find it at two large pet boxstores. But I have a good mom and pop store in the area that carried it. Get the smallest bottle you can find. A 4 oz bottle will last forever since you are using 10 drops per gallon(get an eye dropper from the pharmacy), unless you spill it on that brand new white carpet and your wife bans it from the house :kill:.

I would think about not putting the eggs in a 10 gallon tank. Too many variables in a ten gallon tank. If it was a bare bottom and plant free tank I guess it would be ok. I would get a couple of sterilite shoe boxes. Put 1''-2'' of water in the bins and put the eggs in. Change out 75% of the water on a daily basis using bottled water. Every couple of days switch out into a new bin. I am a little over the top on the area perhaps...But I have raised some really tough fish eggs and found by taking the time and effort to go the extra step even when really not needed seemed to cut down on bad things happening. Oh if you use the shoe box method and those adorable cynops hatch, turkey baste them into their own shoe box with fresh water. Not sure how the methyl blue if used on tads would go....

Hopefully this clears up the methyl blue question and such. Good luck!!!

Thanks Rick, that really answered my question. Well, Dana is offering to ship me another batch so I think another try is worth it. It is worth the extra effort by keeping them in separate containers, so I'll give that a try. Maybe the blue solution might be worth searching out, try that to if I can find it. Thanks again for all who have posted, this has really helped me out.
Anthony

Hi again, Anthony. I just pm'd you. I've never done the methyl blue and mine have been fine. I think it is a solution I once used on my Betta fish? I've also used the shoe box type of sterilite (plastic storage) containers and have had success, though the biggest move mine made was from one son's bedroom to another of my sons' bedrooms.

I'll wait to hear back from you.
Dana