Question: question re aggressiveness (Cynops pyrrhogaster)

we have 4 japanese fire bellied newts, about 3 inches long. they are still mostly terrestrial but are gradually spending more and more time in water. they have a very shallow semi aquatic set-up with a large island with moss and a coconut house and a couple of stones in the water which they can sit on or hide under.

three of them eat a lot and can be quite aggressive. they kind of tear the food from the tongs (i like to distribute the food so that they all get the same amount).
the problem is that they sometimes bite each other when there is food involved (like when one of them thinks the other one is taking his food). they seem to ignore each other otherwise.
these three have all bitten another newt - in the side of the head and today one bit another one in the nose. they don't just bite and let go - it seems really vicious.
i was wondering how much aggression is normal and most of all - can they actually hurt each other?
i know i might be overreacting so i would really appreciate if someone experienced enlightened me. i always read about how friendly these newts are supposed to be so i'm confused.

another problem is that fourth newt doesn't eat as much and is now noticeably smaller. he seem fine but only takes a little bit of food every day and seems more shy. i worry that when we leave for 2 weeks and a friend gives them food on a dish this newt won't eat anything. i also worry that if the other three become even more aggressive they will harm him.
would it be a good idea to separate them?

many thanks for your help!

Well aggression is common during feeding time. Usually newts let go after they realize that they are biting another newt and not food. In your case though, since one is smaller they will single him out and get more food then him. And since they get more food they will continue to get larger than him. Once there is a big enough difference in size one of the bigger three may just eat him. I would seperate the one being picked on right away. Put him in his own cage, a 10 gallon would be nice and create a setup similar to the current one.

Are you sure they are Japanese firebellies? The behavior sounds more typical for warty or paddletail firebellies. See:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/firebelly.shtml
To get the smallest one to eat, the best bet is to separate it to another tank.

Jennewt, I am pretty sure they are JFBN's. He has pics of them on his profile.

Good point. (Also, he is a she.)

I would also suggest feeding them more often. This will help cut down on the mealtime aggression and help the smallest one catch up.

Hey, I am SO sorry Evut.

I have the same thing happen at mealtime with my Chinese firebellies. I have to physically separate them at mealtime but other than that they are fine. One time the largest one had the littlest one's head in it's mouth! She gets quite aggressive when she is hungry! That little one can be too. The little one has taken nips at the big one too. Luckily they can move kind of slow at times and I have learned to read the signs better. None of them has been injured by any of these incidences. There is one in the group who is not aggressive (and is in fact rather shy) and I have to take special care to make sure that one gets its fair share. Since I can control this and see if one is going over toward the other one when I am feeding them, I can head it off at the pass and divert it's attention with food or separate them. They all get along very well otherwise, so I just feed them when I am there and let them live together. Most of the time they cuddle or just hang around each other....until the next feeding time.

Best of luck,
Critter Mom

hi everyone,
thanks for your contributions. i am a she, AJ - but no offence taken
i just read the description of the paddletail firebellies and i'm sure it's not them. these are pictures of my newts a couple of months back: http://www.caudata.org/forum/album.php?albumid=524

i'm actually doing the same "feeding supervision" as critter mom already. i manage to feed the 3 hungry big ones well and the biting can be mostly prevented if i separate them during feeding.
as you say, they are only aggressive during feeding. when there's no food around they seem like best friends.

the problem with the little one isn't actually that they pick on him - he's not really interested in food so when the other three are following the tongs with the food he's nowhere near them. i try to feed this one a couple of times each day but he only takes a little bit and it's a bit of a struggle to get him interested.
i will try putting him in a separate box to see if it suits him better. at least when there's food left for him on a dish the others won't eat it all.

thanks again everyone.

Most definitely Cynops pyrrhogaster sasayamae.
I wouldn´t worry at all about agression...i´ve seen what looked like "vicious biting" several times and there has never been any harm done.
With Cynops of a similar size you can pretty much say agression is never a problem.