Caudata.org: Newts and Salamanders Portal

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Did you know that registered users see fewer ads? Register today!

Illness/Sickness: Axo holding head down, and swimming in spirals??

sunshinesprite

New member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Hiya, my axo Yoshi is holding his head down and to the left, sometimes on the bottom of the tank, and when he swims it's in spirals or cork-screws, or in circles toward his tail, he can't seem to swim normally.. If he were a person I'd say he had an ear infection.. Also two of his gills on the right side were twisted too, not curled forward, but like someone grabbed each little gill and twisted it, though they looked better just now, less twisted.

I've just moved and my axo's (3 of 'em) spent several days in bowls, and the water got changed every other day (bad of me I know :(), and I know the two albino (of which Yoshi is one) axo's are stressed, as Lotus (my female) has her gills curled forward. I saw Yoshi do that spiral swiming in his bowl, so I got them in their tanks asap. The water's new, but conditioned and with a little salt, and it was too warm earlier but I've cooled it down with ice packs and gradually added cold water.

I was going to fridge Yoshi but
1) my fridge is too cold, I can't get the temp above 39F or 3.89C and
2) I thought maybe if it was stress related just leaving them alone back in their tank would be better than messing with him more

On the plus side he is eating, but looks soo miserable.. Please advise!

Oh, and my wild type, in a seperate tank but with the exact same water as the others got is just fine! The only difference is that he was in a larger bowl...
 

Darkmaverick

Site Contributor
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
2,032
Reaction score
82
Location
Sydney
That certainly sounds like a neurological problem. What specifically are your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels and temperature? What do you feed the axies? What type of salt are you adding to the tank and in what amounts?
 

sunshinesprite

New member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
I feed the pellets from Ambystoma Genetics (salmon pellets) and use sea salt, in this case it was about 4 tsp for 20 gal. (the other tank has about 3 tsp for 10 gal) 22 degrees C as of this morning. It's new water as of yesterday, unfortunately 100% new b/c I wasn't able to bring a significant amount of the cycled water during the move. I'm sure ammonia was high in the bowls yesterday morning because I'd let them sit too long :( Also, we moved from an area with hard well water to an area with treated water, though I used a dechlorinator/stress coat, and when I originally got them I was in an area with treated water and they were ok there.

I don't currently have a kit for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, I've had these guys from eggs, since 2006 with no problems, so I'd not gotten a new kit when the old one ran out.

Lotus is still fine, though looking stressed (gills forward), and Yoshi hasn't changed overnight. My wildtype, different tank, same water, still looks just fine, not stressed or anything, though he is gulping air more than he did before the move.

Should I leave them be and see if they settle in, or re-change the water? What could cause neuro symptoms? I feel terrible, Yoshi especially just looks so miserable..
 
Last edited:

Darkmaverick

Site Contributor
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
2,032
Reaction score
82
Location
Sydney
Toxicity such as from chemicals and high nitrogenous wastes levels as well as malnutrition can cause neurological problems. I would recommend you test the water parameters and lower the temperature.

You might also like to fridge your axie while you work on the tank. That could hopefully slow down any illness.
 

sunshinesprite

New member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
I was going to fridge Yoshi but
1) my fridge is too cold, I can't get the temp above 39F or 3.89C and
2) I thought maybe if it was stress related just leaving them alone back in their tank would be better than messing with him more

On the plus side he is eating, but looks soo miserable.. Please advise!

Darkmaverick, thank you so much for your advice, and thanks for advising on this forum generally!! Are you a practicing vet? - never mind, I jumped over to your blog out of curiousity and see that you are :) wouldn't want to reiterate your pet peeve, not that I have any way of knowing you look young. Kudos, and thanks again for taking the time to help ppl like me!

Should I still fridge him since my fridge is colder than recommended?

Update - He stopped eating and looks rough, and Lotus was still stressing late this morning so I thought maybe it's also the tank - pulled 'em out and put them in bowls with new water (no salt) and Lotus looks better. I'm going to go get a test and some fresh supplies, some of mine are on the old side, perhaps that's part of the problems? Either way don't want to make things worse. I'll let you know what the water is. I'm also wondering if maybe the pH is different here.. Last move was no problem, I guess I've gotten caught unprepared this time..
 
Last edited:

sunshinesprite

New member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
The salt helps cut down on fungal and bacterial infections - when I first got my eggs for my science class I lost half of them to a fungus, which was fixed by adding a bit of salt to the water, I've been doing it ever since, until this move when I seem to have forgotten everything I should know about caring for these guys..

I got the water tested, the pH here is higher, around 7.7, so I'm using pH down. Don't know what it was at the old house, but everything tested w/in good ranges (ammonia/nitrate/nitrite). Got a digital thermometer and am working on the fridge temp. now.

Got the temp up to 4.5C, is that still too cold?
 
Last edited:

Aimee

New member
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
124
Reaction score
8
I wouldn't recommend using chemicals to lower your pH as a fluctuating pH is much more stressful than a steady pH that is slightly high. Also, a pH of 7.7 is perfectly fine for your little fellows so altering your pH is not necessary.

I'm not sure about the 4.5 C though. The experts out there can answer that question better than I. Good luck with your little ones :happy:
 

Darkmaverick

Site Contributor
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
2,032
Reaction score
82
Location
Sydney
Yes i agree with the rest on not using pH up and down chemicals. They do tend to complicate things and mask underlying problems.

In general, there is no necessity to add additional aquarium salts to the water unless the water is very soft. It is also possible to 'overdose' with the salt and can cause skin and gill problems in the axie. I recommend not adding the salt.

In terms of fridge temperature, 4 degrees celsius is the temperature where it inhibits microbial growth. In mammalian cells, cellular injury and death can occur at temperatures lower than 4 degrees. The recommended lowest fridge temperature of 5 degrees is a safeguard. Although axies love the cold and there are reports of them thriving in ponds covered with a layer of ice, therapeutic fridging should still not go below 4 degrees celsius. If you can maintain the fridge temperature at 4.5 degrees and very certain it doesn't dip below that, fridging is still ok. Could you possibly turn up the temperature any higher? Some fridges get a bit warmer when its fully stocked as well.
 

sunshinesprite

New member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
The bottom shelf of the fridge stays above 4.5 consistently, yay :) I plunked all three in the fridge last night. Yoshi doesn't look much better this morning, though he did manage to swim normally after another corkscrewing swim when I startled him opening the tupperware lid, so I hope that's a good sign.

To keep them covered with water in the biggest tupperware I've got only leaves about 1/2 in., or about 1cm or so of air, is that enough for them to breath for the day?

I'll d/c the salt then, and skip the pH down.
Thanks soo much for the help!
 

Darkmaverick

Site Contributor
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
2,032
Reaction score
82
Location
Sydney
Due to the cold, the dissolved oxygen content in the water will be higher. In addition, the daily water changes will replenish fresh water. There shouldn't be an issue with oxygen.

Ensure that you have sufficient water to fully cover the axie but not excessive depth such that the axie floats. Floating, alongside abnormal movements/swimming can be stressful. You can minimise that by allowing the axie to rest on all fours without excessively deep water.
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
    There are no messages in the chat. Be the first one to say Hi!
    Top