Implications of N.kaiseri CITES Appendix 1 listing in the European Union

Mark · Apr 7, 2010

This thread is solely for the discussion of the European interpretation of the CITES Appendix 1 listing of N.kaiseri.

Disclaimer - The following links to guidance notes give an accurate and detailed description of requirements. Do not rely on my interpretation.

Animal Health - Cites FAQ
Animal Health

I recently enquired as to the interpretation of the Appendix 1 listing of Neurergus kaiseri, specifically with regards to commercial sale within the EU. Below is part of the response received from helpful staff at the CITES Management Authority in the UK.

I have not yet had official confirmation that this species has indeed been listed upon Appendix I although I believe that you are correct. Import / export permits will be required for movements outwith the EU and certificates for commercial use within the EU - refer to GN1 and GN2 at Animal Health - Cites FAQ .
However, none of this will come into force until the EU publishes the necessary legislation which may well be months away.

I cannot yet say how applications to use specimens commercially in the EU will be treated but, in general, I would expect that specimens acquired before the listing will be treated as pre-convention but only testing the system will resolve that. There is also the need for the specimens to be marked and you should take into account the charges we make for permits and certificates Animal Health.

For the time being then it is as well to be careful and check with us occasionally until we are able to provide a date when this listing becomes law in the EU although other countries may well manage this quicker and importers/ exporters should be certain that they have the correct papers in place before any movement.

The following are the salient points from the guidance notes:

CITES specimens may be moved freely within the EU, although you may have to provide evidence to confirm that they were imported or obtained legally (this could be problematic as Iran states that all specimens are illegal). Legality could be decided using the following criteria:

Evidence could be:
• the holder’s copy of the import permit; or
• an invoice or receipt which has the number of the import permit or sale certificate on it; or
• a letter from the person who originally bred the specimen, or a certificate from another EU management Authority if the specimen was acquired for commercial purposes. The letter should be signed and dated by the breeder or importer. You must also give the person’s address, where the specimens were bred, their birth or hatch dates, and details of the parents.

You do not need any certificate simply to possess an Annex A CITES specimen or to give it away.

You only need a certificate if specimens are to be used for commercial purposes.

For commercial use within the EU you will require an “Article 10 certificate”. This costs £25 per specimen.

Because N.kaiseri can produce large quantities of offspring in one season it should be possible to certify a group under the one certificate using the following:

A fee of £25 is required for each application to commercially use a single specimen or any number of specimens as long as they:

(a) are of the same species (in the case of animals other than corals) or genus (in the case of plants and corals), and are either-
(b) included together on a single previously issued commercial use certificate, or
(c) were imported into a member state on a single import permit, or
(d) have been bred from the same parents in the same breeding season .

Breeders can reduce their costs by applying for Article 10 certificates for a number of specimens at the same time. This can be for semi-complete certificates before they are born, or for full Article 10 certificates after offspring have been produced. Applications will count as one application as long as they are for live animals bred from the same parents in the same breeding season, and applied for at the same time on 1 application form.

Where it is not possible to identify the actual parents, the ‘same parents’ are defined as follows:

Artificial insemination (AI): one female plus a number of males

Colony breeding: a stated number of females and males

NB: In all cases, applicants must supply full details of all the potential parents in order for an application to be considered in this way.

Exports out of the EU will require separate certificate at £59 per specimen.

All Annex A species sold commercially must be marked. How this is achieved with such a small newt is unconfirmed.
From correspondence with the CITES Management Authority:

The law requires that animals that are being used commercially be marked and for this species, given their size, this is an issue that is being looked into by our scientific advisers. I will of course let you know as soon as we have any news. I am sure that before the species is listed in the EU there will be other questions to resolve.

So we must wait, maybe months, for the legislation to be drawn up. When the date is confirmed it will be a very interesting way to spend £25 testing the new process. The above should give hope to anyone who has no commercial interest in N.kaiseri and if all goes well commercial trade within the EU will be inexpensive, especially if group certification is possible.

damien · Apr 8, 2010

Thanks for the post! A lot is still unclear at this point, but we'll see what will happen. If I have to pay a fee to keep or breed the animals, I will.
I'm curious how many people will give their animals away or sell them to avoid this stuff.

Mark · Apr 8, 2010

damien said:
If I have to pay a fee to keep or breed the animals, I will.
I'm curious how many people will give their animals away or sell them to avoid this stuff.

Nobody will have to pay to keep their animals. You only need to pay if you want to sell them or export them from the EU. Movement between EU countries may be restricted by the legality issue - according to Iran there are no legal kaiseri. It depends how the legislation is drawn up for pre-convention specimens.

damien · Apr 8, 2010

What I meant to write was that the possible paperwork for keeping them isn't scaring me, I just edited my post so much that it lost that part >_<.
I thought that international trade even within in europe was prohibited for CITES I animals without a permit.

Mark · Apr 8, 2010

damien said:
I thought that international trade even within in europe was prohibited for CITES I animals without a permit.

Trade, yes. Both across borders and within your country certificates are required. However, if I were give away specimens to you in the Netherlands I would only need to prove the legality of them. No certificate is required for giving animals away, as far as I know.

damien · Apr 8, 2010

If for giving away specimens you don't need a special permit (= pay extra money) that you do need if you sell them, that's just asking for fraud, right?
For example if I 'give' you a few animals but ask €200 for shipping... It's a very human way of doing things, so it's bound to happen.

For the animals themselves it doesn't matter, since you need to prove they are legal, but I predict that a lot of people will 'give away' their animals.

But being able to ship them internationally with the proper papers is a very nice thing to have, regardless.

Azhael · Apr 8, 2010

That was also my first thought xD
If us, human beings were decent in nature this wouldn´t be a problem.

I hope there is a way to sort this out. It would be a pitty if the people who actually care and have no commercial interest on these animals were shadowed by those pretending to care.

ajc · May 9, 2010

In view of the uncertainties surrounding this species, I have now divested myself of my remaining specimens and no longer maintain them. Shame :-(
AJCs Virtual Frogroom: Bye bye kaiseri

Tappers · May 9, 2010

Sorry to hear that AJC, this animal needs experienced breeders - I'm sure yours will continue the good work you started with them though..

RobM · May 9, 2010

That is a real shame, I've enjoyed reading your frogroom posts about N.Kaiseri in the past

ajc · May 10, 2010

They have gone to a good home. When they emerge from quarantine each individual animal will be DNA typed then go into a breeding setup. The host institution has full CITES clearance and will be able to participate in international breeding programmes, carefully managing bloodines via DNA typing.

Tappers · May 10, 2010

ajc said:
They have gone to a good home. When they emerge from quarantine each individual animal will be DNA typed then go into a breeding setup. The host institution has full CITES clearance and will be able to participate in international breeding programmes, carefully managing bloodines via DNA typing.

Now that's a good home!

Mark · Aug 13, 2010

Below is an email received today from the UK CITES office.

Dear Mark - the Regulation has been circulated and will come into effect on Monday 16 August. From that date all commercial transactions will require Article 10 certificates and movements into or out of the EU need CITES permits from this office. Please let me know if you have any queries.

So there you have it, it's finally law. I assume this is also the case in the wider European Union. Hopefully one of our members will go through the certification process and report the outcome here. If not I'm sure I will be giving it a go next year.

Davo · Aug 14, 2010

Hi Mark, my kaiseri F2s are just coming out of the water, could you give me any contacts or links for certification? I have not got a clue but expect to have some spares and not sure where i stand on the legal side? Do you no if it is even legal to keep them or is it just the selling of them?

Martin

Mark · Aug 16, 2010

You can download an article 10 application form from the DEFRA website: Animal Health - Forms - Details

You can keep them or give them away for free without any need for certificates. It's only if you sell them do you need the certification. One certificate should cover the whole group, assuming they are from the same breeding.

Let us know how you get on.

Davo · Aug 16, 2010

Thanks for that, i have just gone through the form and need to print it off once it is filled in, i get my pc back tomorrow with virus removed (on my wifes lap top at the moment) so will attempt to get them certificated tomorrow.
Just a thought am i allowed to swap some of them for other newts or salamanders?
Once again big thanks for the help will let you no how i go on.

Cheers Martin :happy:

Mark · Aug 16, 2010

Certificates are only required if a) you sell them b) they cross international borders. You can swap them or give them away in the UK without certificates.

I suspect the certification process will be quite slow. Don't forget, they may reject the application. Who knows - you're probably the first person to try!

Edit - actually, I'm not sure if a swap would constitute a trade. You'd better check.

Mark · Aug 18, 2010

It's worth also mentioning that because of the small size of these newts there is currently no method for marking individuals. Normally CITES Appendix 1 animals are marked or micro-chipped for better tracking. For the time being any certificates that can be issued will be transaction specific (TSC). I assume this means that each transaction will require new certificates i.e. if you sell certificated animals to someone the buyer would then be required to re-certify before selling them on to another party.

I'm sure this will be explained during the application process and hopefully future research will change this situation.

Davo · Aug 23, 2010

Just sent off form with £25, will keep you upto date with any developements!
Spoke to a lady at Uk cities called Shelly who was very helpful with one of the questions i was struugling with on the form.
Fingers crossed!

Martin :happy:

Davo · Sep 17, 2010

Just received my article10 transaction specific certificates for my Neurergus Kaiseri adults and their offspring. It costs £25 for registering the group of juvs but they each have their own certificate. The process was not a problem as long as you speak to Shelly Hicks, she is very helpful! :happy:
The adults cost £25 each to register unless they are from the same batch of eggs and the same parents then it is £25 for the group.

Cheers Martin :happy:

Implications of N.kaiseri CITES Appendix 1 listing in the European Union

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