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Photo: 6 morphed axies?!

Platterpus

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Saw a very curious thing at an aquarium shop today… 6 MORPHED axies!
For sale as “salamanders” (no reference to axolotls) @ $150 each –
We found it very puzzling since we have never seen morphed axies for sale in any pet shop here, and by all accounts it is quite a rare occurrence… What is even more odd is that the store (conveniently?) had an entire range of colours on offer – wild-type, melanoid black, olive-brown and also white (with beautiful yellow spots.)
Our question is this: What are the chances of this being a natural freak occurrence? Is there someone doing some “backyard science” with iodine? Is this ethical/legal? Are we just overly suspicious? :eek:
Here’s some pics taken in the aquarium shop:
 

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Coastal Groovin

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Looks like some hormone treatment was performed. But What great looking animals!!! It's a shame they probally won't live very long 5 years is the record for a morphed Axie. I lives in a zoo in Mexico. Many die within 2 years.
 

StolleMan

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A little bit off topic, but does this store have 'unmorphed' axolotls? I'm in the market for a golden and I live in Adelaide too.
 

Jennewt

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Every so often, a bunch of these show up in pet shop(s) in Australia. There is no doubt that they are artificially induced to morph. And it's quite likely that they won't live for much of a lifespan. I try to urge people NOT to buy them, but I'm sure they get bought anyway. And then the evil chemists get busy making more:(

Does anyone in AU have a morphed axolotl that has lived for any significant length of time?
 

Platterpus

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Well, I actually questioned the store owner at length, firsty asking "Are these "salamanders" actually axolotyls? He said "Yes". Then I stated "I understand that they do not have a long lifespan once morphed". He said "I have had a morphed one that lived over 15 years, they do not have a shortened life span". I don't think so (sales pitch no doubt), and I did not ask how they came to be (mostly because I suspected anyway due to the range of colours). As beautiful and fascinating as they are and as tempted as we are to give one a good home, I don't want a pet that is most likely to die before long.
 

Mac Myers

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Wow.... What an odd thing to do. Why a morphed Axolotl when there are so many Tiger Salamanders?
You are also correct in that when you buy odd/sick/poorly housed animals from a pet store you just encourage them to continue their nonsense. :mad: Hard to resist sometimes however.
 

oceanblue

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Like previous posters I agree these must be artificially morphed axolotls. It looks like the breeder has used appropriate doses of hormone at an appropriate stage and the result may be robust long lived individuals.

It really would be nice to know if these creatures have thrived if properly cared for. Others have appeared in posts from Australia. If anyone on this forum bought one it would be nice to know if they are doing well (or not).

If you take an adult axolotl and morph it the result is usually a disaster as are most amateur attempts without proper research. (For instance iodine does not result in morphing, it is just intensely irritating to skin and gills)

I have changed my mind on the morality of artificially morphing axolotls and think it may be more ethical to keep a morphed axolotl than a wild caught tiger salamander which has been shipped halfway round the world.

To answer your questions this is not a natural freak occurrence. It is someone who appears to have done a good job with hormones, not "backyard science" with iodine. The ethical position is complicated. The legality may depend on local laws on animal welfare and drug treatment of animals.

You are right to be suspicious. Carefully consider if you can provide these animals with a reasonable life before buying. If I was totally convinced that morphed axolotls lived long healthy lives I might morph into an "evil chemist" and corner the UK market.
 

Platterpus

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Trust me, I would have bought a couple if I was sure they would survive and live a healthy life. The white one was even more spectacular in the flesh. We actually went back the next day and questioned them more. Apparently they are a year old but smaller than our 6 month old axies.... how much do they shrink when they morph?
 

oceanblue

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Speaking from very limited personal experience, protocols and papers seem to suggest morphing if done at all should be started at about 14-15cm. My one then ate fast and furious and grew rapidly to 17cm in the early stages of morphing. It then stopped eating and slimmed down, eating almost nothing for three months. It has not lost much length and is still 17cm. It has not grown since but it is still early days. Its aquatic siblings are 23-25cm long.

The size again suggests the breeder knows what he is doing. I'm trying to give my morph a comfortable life and it seems at the moment to wish to remain most of the time in a shallow aquatic setting in dense weed rather than burrow in a dryer substrate.

I would be very dubious of anyone who claimed 15 years life for a morphed axolotl in their care. It is pushing the record for tigers in general. I won't be able to make this sort of claim before 2023 and I suspect that the morphed axolotl (or even me) will not last that long. I think it is likely these morphed axolotls are more robust than many people credit but a lot more difficult to keep than aquatic axolotls and somewhat shorter lived.
 

Platterpus

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I would be very dubious of anyone who claimed 15 years life for a morphed axolotl in their care.

Dubious? We are very suspicious about the whole thing - especially the pet store guy, who became extremely evasive once we started asking more educated questions...
Some credible or believeable background info on the animals would probably have clinched a $300 sale. As it was, alarm bells were ringing for us about the origin and/or legality of these salamanders...
Having said that, I can't deny that all of them looked extremely healthy, active and curious. What's more, they were displaying distinctly terrestrial habits - like avoiding the pond in their tank!
If this really is a professional job, I wouldn't be surprised if the person responsible could already be a member of this forum - It seems logical, doesn't it?
Without more first-hand information from the source, I don't think I wanna be the 'test case' for whether this batch live long or die young.
 

Shizeric

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To be honest, I'm sure it's only a matter of time until morphed Axies comes a mainstream pet. I feel that it's the same with all exotic pets....the more exotic the better,,,Axolotls' appeal comes from their oddness, and what's more odd than a rare form of an Axolotl...I see the same thing approaching with the A. andersoni. It's like a rarer Axolotl.

This forum is young, and so is the Axolotl phenomenon (for the most part). When folks perfect the technique of getting Axolotls to morph into terrestrial beings...I could see them being just as popular as Tiger Salamanders.

My 2 cents.
 

electronfusion

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Do axolotls ever reproduce after morphing, or do they lose that ability? From the few cases I've heard of, they didn't reproduce after.

Maybe the goal of the breeder is to keep pet owners from becoming future competition by selling them sterile individuals. I could see this happening. Or, it might just be that the cool patterns show up after they morph.

I'm seriously doubting the 15 years old morph. Normal axolotls are only recorded living to around 15 years I believe. Although I wonder how that data might change (or rather is changing), since the hobby of keeping pet axolotls is rather new, and people are giving much more space and individualized care than was probably given in scientific research facilities in years past. I know this is off topic, but I wonder how long axolotls can live in optimal conditions.
 

Mac Myers

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As mentioned, Axolotls are the only salamander you can keep in Australia.

Sorry... I (for some reason, maybe I've forgotten how to read) didn't make the connection between Salamander legality in Australia and that being proof of "Axolotlness" per se.... or a valid reason to morph them. I don't like the idea if it seems to affect the animals health or longevity. And from what I gather, it may/does. So I will continue my uninformed, culturally biased feelings on the matter. ;)
 

blueberlin

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I have a question on this. Granted, my experience with axolotls is only 3 years old, but I was always under the impression that the likelihood of an axolotl morphing is negligible. In the book Developmental Biology of the Axolotl, it says (paraphrasing from memory) that it has never happened spontaneously in studied cases. Only when the axolotl is crossed with a tiger salamander does one start to see metamorphosis of the offspring, or when intentionally chemically triggered. Am I right in this perception?

That's not really my question, though. My question is about the number of axolotls that have taken to land that one reads about. Here in Germany there are a handful of people who regularly crossbreed the two ambystomids and sell the offspring as "terrestrial axolotls". This has given rise to a popular opinion that axolotls spontaneously metamorphose "although no-one knows why".

In Australia, though, it is only legal to have/trade A. mexicanum. For the sake of argument, let's rule out any dubious (illegal) behavior on the part of the people at that aquarium shop, and also consider that a number of axolotls on this forum have metamorphosed. Could someting be happening with the axolotls that is causing them to metamorphose now, all over the world? It doesn't make sense to me, that an animal in captivity, where food source would be more plentiful and easier to find, that the animal would begin to evolve outside of its normal habitat, but I'm not very clever anyway and so just thought I'd ask.

-Eva
 

oceanblue

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Axolotls were a very popular pet in the 1880's and in the early days spontaneous metamorphoses were fairly common but the metamorphosed animals were hard to breed.

The block is genetic and axolotls do not show the surge in thyroid hormone which causes metamorphosis in Tiger salamanders. First generation crosses with Tigers metamorphose, second generation crosses show segregation with three quarters metamorphosing, indicating a single mendelian gene "defect".

Administration of the correct dose of thyroid hormone at the correct size causes metamorphosis into a robust individual. It is possible to metamorphose anything from an unhatched embryo to a 12 year old but unsurprisingly the prospects of long life at these extremes are grim. There is a consensus that inducing metamorphosis after sexual maturity results in a sickly short lived animal.

I think that it is unlikely that there is a change causing mass spontaneous metamorphosis of axolotls. Rare spontaneous metamorphoses are picked up as interesting. Metamorphosed axolotls have appeared in Australian petshops before. This group has to be artificial, if they were spontaneous then there is a huge lagoon of non metamorphosed axolotls somewhere near Adelaide! A few tanks and a few packets of thyroxine tablets is far more plausible.

My own feeling is that if I go into the metamorphosed axolotl production business I would like to keep feedback of how the creatures did. (sales pitch- my first morph is still going strong at X years and Y% of the ones I have sold are still alive.)

I doubt the breeder is a member of the forum. Decent survival data would be very reassuring. If he is a member and fears bad feedback he could always re-join under a new alias to avoid the "evil chemist" red splurge of reputation which could follow!
 

blueberlin

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Hi oceanblue, I'm so glad you chipped in!

So, if metamorphosis were induced after embryonic state but before sexual maturity, it would "work" better?

More specifically to my - what did Mac write? "uninformed, culturally biased feelings" haha - I'm really just looking for a relatively reliable perspective on metamorhosis of A. mexicanum - do they do it or don't they? I have, of course, read of the doubt about the "true axolotl" stemming from the original 1800s group transport, but even considering that the original specimens may have been mixed and cross-bred, how likely is it that the animal that we, today, here and around the world, call A. Mex., would spontaneously metamorphose?

-Eva
 

oceanblue

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So, if metamorphosis were induced after embryonic state but before sexual maturity, it would "work" better?

More specifically to my - what did Mac write? "uninformed, culturally biased feelings" haha - I'm really just looking for a relatively reliable perspective on metamorhosis of A. mexicanum - do they do it or don't they? I have, of course, read of the doubt about the "true axolotl" stemming from the original 1800s group transport, but even considering that the original specimens may have been mixed and cross-bred, how likely is it that the animal that we, today, here and around the world, call A. Mex., would spontaneously metamorphose?

-Eva

Metamorphosis at about the same size Tiger Salamanders change "works better". Round about 15cm.seems to be be the optimum. Smaller results in tiny creatures which do not feed well and after sexual maturity you seem to get individuals which seem to die for no obvious reason.

I suspect that the axolotl population in Europe is still very rich in genetic material from the 1863 introduction. This out of copyright article gives a lot of detail of the perspective from a century ago. Remember in this context albino = leucistic. 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica/Axolotl - Wikisource
 
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