Question: Bulge on axie forehead - a male sexual mark?

Kata · May 17, 2010

Hi,

background:
I have two albino axolotls both are male and mature (Lali and Abzag). I have Abzag at home with two other (a female and a male) - he is possibly the father of the males 100 children - she laid eggs a month ago. The other guy, Lali, is at my workplace, with an other girl, but she haven't laid eggs yet.
problem:
Both of them have one bulge on their forehead - it seems that its not due to injury.
question:
Are these bulges some mark of the sexual maturation and activity, or are they caused by infection?

K

dragonlady · May 17, 2010

A picture would be helpful. I don't know of any head bulge being the sign of sexual maturity.

blueberlin · May 18, 2010

Hi Kata,

A bulge on the head sounds odd. If you look in the Axolotl Gallery, you can see lots and lots of pictures of healthy axolotls. Do yours look different from these?

-Eva

Kata · May 19, 2010

Hello everybody,

I made some pictures about Lali and Abzag, they aren't realy godd quality, because I mad them with my phone.
Both of them lost appetite in the past few months - the girls eat much more than these two boys (they usually get fish, bloodworm and tubifex).

melfly · May 19, 2010

Thats definately weird!
Are the two males with head bulges related?
This could be a genetic thing. I wouldn't attempt breeding these males.

Mel

Kata · May 19, 2010

Yes, they are brothers, from the same mother and father. I don't really want to breed them, because I had one sister of them which developed aberrant gills and was extremely sensitive to infections and unfortunately died despite the antibiotic treatment.

I got all of them from a friend of mine who breeds axies, but the parents aren't relatives.
Nevertheless, I hope that they will get better, but I won't keep their eggs for further breeding.

Don't you think, that the bulges could be caused by a parasite or an infection? Is it surely have to be genetic?

melfly · May 19, 2010

Its a possibility.
I dont have much experience with axie illnesses.
Although I've not seen anything on here similar.
Someone else may have seen something like this before.
Its strange they both have it and its not affected the others yet.

If you are concerned, and its possible, I would suggest a vet visit.

Mel

Shizeric · May 19, 2010

Have you felt the bump at all? Is it solid or liquid? Don't touch it if you haven't, just wondering if you have.

deliriah · May 19, 2010

It reminds me of hydrocephaly in kittens I saw while searching the net when my cat had a litter. (my kittens turned out healthy I was just looking for info and saw pics of hydrocephalic kittens.) It looks similar in humans as well but it is very dibilitating and many never reach adulthood. But I've never heard of such in axolotls and I doubt thats what it is if they're fully mature adults. Just made me think of that. Not really any useful advice here, sorry.

Azhael · May 19, 2010

It´s a beluga with gills

Kata · May 20, 2010

It seems to be solid for me, I don't know what it is, but it's a little bizarre, that they both have it, although they live in different places. They clearly show the signs of stress, they lost appetite - it seems, that they have difficulty in swallowing, they are less active, and slow, and began to be shy.

If it's genetic, than it's nothing to do, but if it's a parasite then what do you think I should do?

Kata · May 20, 2010

I just met a friend of mine, who has got three axies from the same parents as our axies. She said, that she has a wild-type one (which is male too!!), who has a bulge on his forehead almost a year now, and he also began to loose weight, and seems like to be in great stress.
The bulge hard as bone on the forehead of that poor thing too...

Only difference, that it's not albino, but wild type.

That's really look like as some heritable genetic disorder - if no one met anything like this, and we have three brothers now who show the same symptoms...

deliriah · May 20, 2010

It certainly sounds genetic. I think you should contact the owners of the parents, and see if they know of any of their other male offspring developing this bump, and the outcome of any that do/did have it. If it is genetic and they do not survive well with this trait, maybe they should reconsider breeding their axolotls. Or attempt to try a different mate for each, in case it something that needs one chromosome from each parent in order to inheret the bump. If successfull, the trait will not show up if one parent is carrying and the other is lacking. I would strongly suggest not breeding any of the males who have the lump. If it is genetic it will only lead to more problems in the offspring. They are cute though.

Shizeric · May 20, 2010

It is genetic if both your Axolotls have it, as well as other offspring from the parent. I would alert the folks you got your Axies from and inform them to stop breeding whatever parents contributed to your animals.

Kata · May 21, 2010

Yeah, that's my opinion too. I already told the parent's owners that it's have to be some genetic problem, with her axies, I hope she will consider the breeding...

Anyway, thanks a lot for your, help, it seems that we can't do anything to get them well, only hope that they don't suffer too much.

If anything happens I let you know.

Mac Myers · May 21, 2010

Good Luck Kata.

Shizeric · May 21, 2010

The loss of appetite may have nothing to do with the bulge...if it is just a random growth, I don't see why it could cause discomfort. However, I would like to address your substrate. That gravel is not only going to trap a lot of debris and detritus (which will foul your water, and cause illness), but the stones can also be swallowed and cause serious problems.

The appetite loss can be a result of water conditions, so get those checked.

What size tank are they in and what is the temp?

kuphie · May 22, 2010

wow, that's an interesting growth! i would also guess genetics plays a part in this one.

your axolotls look like the coloring is leucistic, not albino, just thought I'd point that out. they are still pretty, despite the lump.

i agree with Eric, you should change that gravel ASAP. if they eat those rocks it could be a dangerous situation! trust me i know first hand.

Kata · May 25, 2010

Hello everybody,

First of all, thanks a lot for the advices, and stuff. :happy:

The size of the tank is 80 liters, the temp is around 20. (I know, it's a little too high for them, but it's really hard to keep a constant low temperature.)
We have chosen these large gravels to avoid them swallowing - they are bigger than their mouth, but I will consider to take it out.
I try everything to optimize the conditions, and see what happens.

I keep you informed, thanks for your interest and help. :happy:

Kata · Jul 12, 2010

Hi Everybody,

in the end we took them to the vet, who sucked out some liquid from the bulge - it totally disappeared after. He sent the liquid to cytological an microbial tests. It lasted for two weeks, and in the and they did't find any parasite, infection, or any pathological change in the cells. They only found some solid crystal (but they don't know what composes it). Perhaps it's a genetic metabolic desease, and some intermediate is accumulated in the forehead, which is not decomposable.

After the bulge-sucking both of them began to get better, and they didn't grow back the bulge. By now they are completely normal, eating much, and looking much more happier. I don't know what it was, but if they show the symptoms again, I will apply the same treatment.
I'm glad, that they are well, thanks everybody for their help! :happy:

Question: Bulge on axie forehead - a male sexual mark?

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