Question: Which newt?

Chrisinator · Jul 5, 2010

I'm planning to build a 10G paludarium and I'm looking for newts that would be perfect with the following criteria: a newt that will work in a 10 gallon tank [with about 2.5 gallons of water], can have about 2-3 of them and freshwater shrimp safe (*optional, but would still like one*).

Does anyone have any idea? They will be the only ones there aside from an african dwarf frog! THANKS!

Azhael · Jul 6, 2010

I can´t think of a single species that i would recommend for those conditions.
Let´s start by the african dwarf frog. It´s not compatible with any newt. It´s a species with radically different requirements, and you won´t be able to provide both species with what they need if you keep them together. Additionally, the frog could be harmed or eaten by a newt, and there´s a risk of exchanging patogens.

Most available species are fully aquatic in captivity. In order to be kept in good conditions the smaller species, even for one single newt, need a minimum of 10g of water. 2,5g is not nearly enough...you won´t be able to provide the kind of water conditions they require with such a tiny volume of water. The water chemistry would go mental, and it would foul VERY fast. Temps would be highly unstable. As a result the newts would leave the water and remain fully terrestrial, or die.

If you really want to keep newts, you have the opportunity to do it properly. Choose an adequate species, read as much as you possibly can about it, learn how to manage an aquarium, set everything up, be ready, and then get the newts.

Chrisinator · Jul 6, 2010

Azhael said:
I can´t think of a single species that i would recommend for those conditions.
Let´s start by the african dwarf frog. It´s not compatible with any newt. It´s a species with radically different requirements, and you won´t be able to provide both species with what they need if you keep them together. Additionally, the frog could be harmed or eaten by a newt, and there´s a risk of exchanging patogens.

Most available species are fully aquatic in captivity. In order to be kept in good conditions the smaller species, even for one single newt, need a minimum of 10g of water. 2,5g is not nearly enough...you won´t be able to provide the kind of water conditions they require with such a tiny volume of water. The water chemistry would go mental, and it would foul VERY fast. Temps would be highly unstable. As a result the newts would leave the water and remain fully terrestrial, or die.

If you really want to keep newts, you have the opportunity to do it properly. Choose an adequate species, read as much as you possibly can about it, learn how to manage an aquarium, set everything up, be ready, and then get the newts.

The African Dwarf Frog was an optional choice since I can move it in and out.

Do fire bellied newts work at all? I thought that it would have been fine since they'll go in and out of water.

I guess I've been given some bad information.

I've been keeping fish for a long time but I guess this is a different version of keeping aquariums.

Azhael · Jul 6, 2010

Quite different in many respects, yes.
Sadly, misinformation is very abundant. Not to sound smug, but this forum and the sister site Caudata Culture, are by far the best information sources you´ll be able to find online, no contest.
Make sure to read A LOT, it´s the only way to learn and be prepared. Contrast information as much as possible, too.

Fire bellied newts (Cynops orientalis) are a good option when they are healthy. Very easy to care for and very rewarding. The problem is that ALL pet-shop Cynops are wild-caught in China. They suffer a very traumatic importation and most commonly are given very inapropriate care at the pet-shops. Those who survive to be sold are always VERY stressed, often ill or dying. As you can iamgine this is not good for the species nor for the hobbyists.

A healthy, well cared for, adult C.orientalis will be almost 100% aquatic. Some venture on land every once in a blue moon, but others never leave the water again. All the land they need is a piece of floating cork bark, you really don´t need to waste valuable space in terrestrial areas.

Some good beginner species are Pleurodeles waltl, A.mexicanum (axolotls), pretty much any Triturus, Tylototriton verrucosus, and any Cynops as long as you can find them captive bred and healthy (there are breeders in this forum).

Chrisinator · Jul 6, 2010

Azhael said:
Quite different in many respects, yes.
Sadly, misinformation is very abundant. Not to sound smug, but this forum and the sister site Caudata Culture, are by far the best information sources you´ll be able to find online, no contest.
Make sure to read A LOT, it´s the only way to learn and be prepared. Contrast information as much as possible, too.

Fire bellied newts (Cynops orientalis) are a good option when they are healthy. Very easy to care for and very rewarding. The problem is that ALL pet-shop Cynops are wild-caught in China. They suffer a very traumatic importation and most commonly are given very inapropriate care at the pet-shops. Those who survive to be sold are always VERY stressed, often ill or dying. As you can iamgine this is not good for the species nor for the hobbyists.

A healthy, well cared for, adult C.orientalis will be almost 100% aquatic. Some venture on land every once in a blue moon, but others never leave the water again. All the land they need is a piece of floating cork bark, you really don´t need to waste valuable space in terrestrial areas.

Some good beginner species are Pleurodeles waltl, A.mexicanum (axolotls), pretty much any Triturus, Tylototriton verrucosus, and any Cynops as long as you can find them captive bred and healthy (there are breeders in this forum).

Thank you so much for the response and the helpful tips! I've been reading a lot about Fire Bellies and they probably wont' do too well in my paludarium that I built as you've mentioned. I read a few sites and started building the paludarium to house 1-2 of them and was misinformed on their care.

Do you know any newts that would go in and out of water?

Azhael · Jul 6, 2010

There are a few species that are semi-aquatic, but even those won´t do well in that tank.
You really need a minimum water volume to be able to ensure a good water quality and stability (rapid temp variations of the water are a real danger). It´s generally agreed that more or less, the minimum is about 10g, as i said above. Less water than that and keeping the correct quality becomes a nightmare or down-right impossible.
It´s in your best interest and the newt´s to have as big a volume of water as possible. In fact, if big enough, and with the adequate filtration/plantation, maintenance is absolutely minimal.

I´m sorry but i really don´t think your paludarium will work for anything except juveniles. If it were bigger, it would.
Can you take it apart? If you can go back to the original tank, and make it fully aquatic, cycle it properly, plant it heavily, etc, you would be able to keep 1-3 newts of a small species or perhaps 1 of some of the not so huge ones.

Chrisinator · Jul 6, 2010

I can take it apart, it will take a lot work but I was really wanting to create something different from my 38G planted tank. I wanted animals to go in and out of the water. I might try Fire Bellied Toads but I'm kind of scared of them.

I might just find a different type of reptile for the land and have my freshwater shrimp in the aquatic part.

Thank you so much for your help!

I wish I would have known that it wasn't gonna work. Back to square 1.
Hopefully, I'll be back soon

Azhael · Jul 6, 2010

Firebelly toads (Bombina orientalis) are a superb choice. They are trully semi-aquatic and could do with a smallish water area (as long as you keep a good maintenance routine). No reason to be scared!! They are very pretty, very active and easy to keep. I would seriously encourage you to look for captive-bred specimens if you decide to go with the Bombina. The ones at pet-shops are usually wild-caught in China too, and it´s quite ridiculous that at this day and age with the progress that the hobby has seen, we still depend on wild-caught bombinas....it´s just shameful.

Just a little thing, to avoid confussion, neither toads nor newts are reptiles, they are amphibians.

If you post a picture of the tank we may be able to tell you if it´s adequate for the toads as it is. Or suggests some changes if needed.

PS: I keep a trio of B.orientalis (well, i´m raising them for my brother) and they are a lot of fun. I have a small group of red cherry shrimp in the aquatic part.

Chrisinator · Jul 6, 2010

Azhael said:
Firebelly toads (Bombina orientalis) are a superb choice. They are trully semi-aquatic and could do with a smallish water area (as long as you keep a good maintenance routine). No reason to be scared!! They are very pretty, very active and easy to keep. I would seriously encourage you to look for captive-bred specimens if you decide to go with the Bombina. The ones at pet-shops are usually wild-caught in China too, and it´s quite ridiculous that at this day and age with the progress that the hobby has seen, we still depend on wild-caught bombinas....it´s just shameful.

Just a little thing, to avoid confussion, neither toads nor newts are reptiles, they are amphibians.

If you post a picture of the tank we may be able to tell you if it´s adequate for the toads as it is. Or suggests some changes if needed.

PS: I keep a trio of B.orientalis (well, i´m raising them for my brother) and they are a lot of fun. I have a small group of red cherry shrimp in the aquatic part.

Thanks for the information! I like the FBTs but I'm not sure if they'll eat my freshwater shrimp or not and I don't really want to risk them. Unless they won't touch them at all.

I was thinking of getting a single Anole with the underwater part being shrimpies.

Attached is a photo:

Hayden · Jul 6, 2010

I had fire bellied toads for a long time, they're the best!

Azhael · Jul 7, 2010

B.orientalis VERY rarely ever catches any kind of prey under water, plus shrimp are mighty fast. I´d say there is no chance they´ll ever catch one. Mine certainly don´t...they don´t even know there are shrimp in the water xDDD

The tank looks really good! I think it could make a very good home for some B.orientalis. If you plant it heavily both in the water and on land, it´ll look fantastic.

I woudn´t really recommend and anole. They require more vertical space, plus it could, theoretically drown.

Chrisinator · Jul 7, 2010

Azhael said:
B.orientalis VERY rarely ever catches any kind of prey under water, plus shrimp are mighty fast. I´d say there is no chance they´ll ever catch one. Mine certainly don´t...they don´t even know there are shrimp in the water xDDD

The tank looks really good! I think it could make a very good home for some B.orientalis. If you plant it heavily both in the water and on land, it´ll look fantastic.

I woudn´t really recommend and anole. They require more vertical space, plus it could, theoretically drown.

Thanks for the response.

My only choice seem to just be:
FBTs - scared of them. How many do you think I can have in my 10G?
Anole - possibility of drowning, but I have driftwood and a bunch of places for it to go up if it falls in the water
Vampire Crabs - freaking expensive
Nothing - nothing.

misslyss · Jul 7, 2010

Strictly my opinion:
Firebelly toads kind of freak me out too, especially after I witnessed one attempt to eat a newts leg in the pet store. Personally, I think a firebelly newt would do fine in that set up. They're a small species compared to others, one should do fine in a 10 gallon. Newts aren't exactly friendly to each other anyways.

If you decide to fill up the tank:
With a 10g filled to the top with water you need to have a TON of plants or else its kind of difficult for them to get around. They prefer to crawl about in the water with ease.

If not, water changes are exhausting since you need to do it more frequently with shallow set ups. If you have a way to test the water that would be good too since you would have to monitor everything a good deal.

Although I do not support pet store bought animals, a lot of the newts in pet stores are kept in horrible conditions, and will likely end up dieing if not bought. I've tried to "save" an individual from pet store neglect with no success. 9 times out of 10 they die depending on how long they were kept that way, but if you do decide to go with a pet store, as long as their outward appearance looks good (no sores, no missing limbs, active and not lethargic) with time they could get over the stress put on them by the pet trade and turn out to be wonderful pets. So where you get your next caudate is up to you. As Azhael said, you can also find many breeders on this site (probably your best bet).

Just thought I'd give you some variety on input and information (not trying to contradict information that has already been given)!

Azhael · Jul 7, 2010

Just a little comment about "rescuing newts". It might seem a very nobel idea, but what you are actually doing is telling the pet-shop owners that they can make a sell from even an ill, dying animal. Automatically, after you take those newts home, they will be replaced by others, and the cycle goes on. You obviously can´t rescue ALL the newts that the shop keeps ordering over and over, so yes, you have rescued some, but you have condemned others.
By not rescuing them, although the poor little fellas will pay a horrible price, at least, the pet-shop might realize that they can´t sell them in those conditions and stop ordering them (and thus, many lifes are saved).

I really think it´s VERY counterproductive to rescue newts from the paws of neglectful pet-shops.

Chris, you could keep 2-3 toads in that tank. May i ask why you find them scary?

CherryBlossom · Jul 7, 2010

vampire crabs look freakin awesome

Hope you get something sorted xxxx

Chrisinator · Jul 7, 2010

Azhael said:
Just a little comment about "rescuing newts". It might seem a very nobel idea, but what you are actually doing is telling the pet-shop owners that they can make a sell from even an ill, dying animal. Automatically, after you take those newts home, they will be replaced by others, and the cycle goes on. You obviously can´t rescue ALL the newts that the shop keeps ordering over and over, so yes, you have rescued some, but you have condemned others.
By not rescuing them, although the poor little fellas will pay a horrible price, at least, the pet-shop might realize that they can´t sell them in those conditions and stop ordering them (and thus, many lifes are saved).

I really think it´s VERY counterproductive to rescue newts from the paws of neglectful pet-shops.

Chris, you could keep 2-3 toads in that tank. May i ask why you find them scary?

Yeah, I know. I always feel bad buying animals from pet stores but I try to get ones that are from stores I truly trust. The one I go to has insanely clean tanks and is probably one of the best pet stores throughought North Jersey.

I'm actually not sure why I don't like them but they just are extremely creepy. I can barely stand my African Dwarf Frog. :/

Chrisinator · Jul 7, 2010

CherryBlossom said:
vampire crabs look freakin awesome

Hope you get something sorted xxxx

I like them since they are more terrestrial but "play" in the water from time to time. If I can find them at a cheaper price, I would probably just end up getting those.

I'll wait to get the anoles/FBTs/vampire crabs till mid august when everything else is settled. Who knows, I might turn my 38G into a paludarium.

Chrisinator · Jul 7, 2010

misslyss said:
Strictly my opinion:
Firebelly toads kind of freak me out too, especially after I witnessed one attempt to eat a newts leg in the pet store. Personally, I think a firebelly newt would do fine in that set up. They're a small species compared to others, one should do fine in a 10 gallon. Newts aren't exactly friendly to each other anyways.

If you decide to fill up the tank:
With a 10g filled to the top with water you need to have a TON of plants or else its kind of difficult for them to get around. They prefer to crawl about in the water with ease.

If not, water changes are exhausting since you need to do it more frequently with shallow set ups. If you have a way to test the water that would be good too since you would have to monitor everything a good deal.

Although I do not support pet store bought animals, a lot of the newts in pet stores are kept in horrible conditions, and will likely end up dieing if not bought. I've tried to "save" an individual from pet store neglect with no success. 9 times out of 10 they die depending on how long they were kept that way, but if you do decide to go with a pet store, as long as their outward appearance looks good (no sores, no missing limbs, active and not lethargic) with time they could get over the stress put on them by the pet trade and turn out to be wonderful pets. So where you get your next caudate is up to you. As Azhael said, you can also find many breeders on this site (probably your best bet).

Just thought I'd give you some variety on input and information (not trying to contradict information that has already been given)!

Sorry about this. I didn't see your post!

Firebellied Toads freak me out. Just today, I walked over to our pond and this frog jumped out of no where and I started screaming.

:grin:

I would like to get more opinions from people about the Fire Bellied Newts situation if it would be suitable or not. Right now, everything else is set-up with my freshwater dwarf shrimp in the aquatic area, so it might not be a good choice anyway. I don't plan on filling up the paludarium up since everything is in place right now.

I do have some test kits that I use for my fish tank so I'll definetely be testing a few times while the thing is set-up.

Thank you so much for replying!

Chrisinator · Jul 7, 2010

Finished Paludarium Project

Complete Stats:
Tank: 10 Gallon
Filter: Pondmaster w/ Whisper 10i (will be added)
Substrate: 3/4 Peat and 1/4 Perlite
Lighting: 2, 26 watt CFLs
Decoration: Crater Rocks, Driftwood, Black River Rock

Flora:
Terrestrial: Sundew, Venus Fly Trap, Creeping Fig
Aquatic: Anubias, Java Fern, Java Moss
Fauna
Terrestrial: Unknown
Aquatic: Black Babualtis, Nerite Snails

Chrisinator · Jul 8, 2010

My 3 choices for an animal are still the same. I would definetely get Vampire Crabs but I just dont' know of where to get them. I might get an anole since there's a lot of woody branches.

Question: Which newt?

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