What is worse for an Axolotl? Water that is not 100% clean or water that is clean but noncycled?

Hello,

I could really use some advice My Axolotl that is 2 years old is running away from food and not eating since last week. He physically looks fine except for a bump under his chin which he had a for a really long time. He was already slowly not eating much. Because I was dumb and did not understand the cycling process when I first started raising him when he was 3 months old, I am now still trying to cycle the tank by changing 20 to 25% of the water daily. The ammonia is at 0.5 ppm and I still have no nitrites even after 3-4 weeks of consistent daily partial water changes. I use the siphon to vaccum the bottom of the tank.

Because he doesn't eat often, the earthworms that are cut are just kinda lying there. I take them out after a day and keep giving him 2 new chopped pieces in hopes of making him eat, I've offered other foods and removed them in about 20-30 minutes but still no dice lately. I decided to try fridging him yesterday but he didn't seem to like it, his gills were red, tail was curled and his color was quite awful after 4 hours. So I moved him back to his tank where he has a hiding spot and could watch tv (which he likes to do daily) and he pooped overnight.

I will try to post pictures shortly. I am taking him for a pet visit Friday but was wondering what is the best thing I could do for him during this time. Is it better to do a 50% water change tonight (to give him some fresh water) or even more (which may restart my cycling process all over again)? Thank you so much for all your help, you folks are the best! :happy:

Hi
I would say either continue with the cycle doing the small water changes you've been doing.
Or keep your axolotl in a seperate tub while the tank cycles. Doing daily 100% water changes on the tub.
You could then not water change the big tank and get the cycle going.

Hope this helps!
Mel

This is the one photo I got of him. I had to borrow a aquarium tank light in order to provide enough light for the photo otherwise it would have been super grainy and blurry since I don't use flash on my axolotls. I guess you can kinda see some red veins on his face in this photo.

Oooh I just noticed something, he is moving his gills more frequently, like once every 2 to 5 seconds. That's usually a sign of poor water right or may not enough oxygen in the tank? I've just loosened up the air pump valve to give more air.

does the top of his head look swollen????it might just be the photo tho.......he is very cute.......sorry im having a dumb day today but i read your post as you have had him since he was 3mths and now he is 2......is that right??? i would have thought in the 18mths of having him your tank would have cycled already......abby(my axie) doesnt like earthworms have you tried him on something else???....please let us know how you go at the vet.....good luck.....if i have read it all wrong im sorry.

I agree with melfly's advice.

Regarding the worm pieces, I would remove them sooner - within a couple of hours of being uneaten.

Regarding large water changes, bear in mind that the good bacteria that break down ammonia and nitrite live attached to surfaces inside the tank, not primarily in the water. So doing a larger water change won't inhibit them from colonizing. But cleaning out your filter or cleaning off all the glass and ornaments in the tank will remove them.

You might want to consider buying some live aquarium plants, if you have a shop that stocks healthy ones. These will accelerate the cycling process and absorb some of the ammonia directly. Choose ones that can live floating, and remove them promptly if they start to die off.

Just to add to what Jennewt said, I wanted to make sure you are dechlorinating the water when you change water out. Chlorine will kill the beneficial bacteria that you want to form in your tank.

Hello, his head is not swollen at the top, might have been the shadow caused by his hiding spot.

Thanks for the advice on the time I should leave the worms in the tank. Yeah he seems to recognize the worms that have been left there too long and wouldn't eat those anyways. These last few days he seems to respond with interest to the food, he'll rest his chin on it and go up to the food but wouldn't eat it.

Oh no! yes I have been scrapping the tank's sides every 3 weeks. =( Okay I'll stop scrapping the sides!

This is a new tank since the old one was never cycled and loaded with bacteria. I put two gold fishes in the old tank and they died in days with columnarus and ick. Plus my mother who raised those gold fishes used something that contained Melachite green to help those fishes. So I'd say the old tank is axolotl unsuitable. I usually just drop in Prime water conditioner. I have another one called Aquasafe. However, because I use a vacuum thing to bring the cold water in..It's really just tap water first and then while the water is pouring in I add in the water conditioner to remove the chlorine. If neccessary I could try to figure out about pouring tap water into another container, add the conditioner then add it to the tank. Kinda sucks though because I'm a small build.

I have to use a watering can for my water changes as my guys live on the stairs landing. I take a watering can of water out ( using a syphon) ..trundle down the stairs and water the flowers. I then refill it from the bathroom tap and add the de-chlorinator..and pour back in.

that makes sense to me now....i did say i was having a dumb day.........sorry hitman.....

It looks like he attempt to try to bite food once as I dropped an earthworm in his face (he missed) but he doesn't try again. Lazy bum.

Bellaboo, holy! Water changes must take forever with the water can! Although that is very efficient that you can use the water to water your plants I kept thinking if I could take that water too and dump it out of my yard or something.

Hello so i wanted to share my experience at the vet and after.

The vet was pretty knowledgeable. She wanted to first deworm my axolotl (apparently reptiles can have many worms in their gut) so I am given medication to force feed my axolotl. She recommended that I just change most of his tank water for fresh declorinated water. She gave me carnivore fed (powder) to give to my axolotl which I would have to force feed as well. She didn't feel anything wrong with him and suggested that fridging wouldn't be a good idea in this case because it shuts down the axolotl's body, hence the slowed down metabolism. Instead I want him to eat.

I know force feeding an axolotl is very frowned upon in this community but I believe there is a way to do it without hurting the axolotl, they wouldn't like it no doubt. The way I did it was put my axolotl in a small tub with declorinated water. It is a two person job. I wet a small microfibre towel and quickly put him on the towel, then wrap the towel around him to prevent him from escaping and moving his arms and legs too much. By using the towel, there was no need to hold him firmly. So hence his jaw and body were not injured.

His head was exposed perfectly, I flipped him over and used a silicone spatula to open his mouth and my partner gave him the medicine. (kinda looked like a baby wrapped up). I kepted him with his head tilted up for 4 seconds to make sure he swallowed, during this time, I scooped a handful of water from the tub to splash on his face and did it every now and then. I did the same thing when I gave him the food. Of course he gets smarter and smarter when I do it like shutting his mouth tight etc.

After putting him back into the tank for 10 minutes, he puked something out...it was a creme colored like thing I'm not sure what is but it was not the food nor the medicine. I hope that might have been what was in him that caused him to feel sick.

I have to do this to him for the next 3 days and then clean all the water out as soon as he poops (as it should contain worms). I'm sorry everyone if I made you feel sick about the force feeding. I really love my axolotl and I felt very sick myself having to do it to him. I hope I can give some insight on the force feeding part to the least. I'll give an update on what happens next.

I am sorry that you're still not sure what the problem is, exactly. I know that can be frustrating. I have a silly question, but what is your substrate made of? I'm just thinking that if it's a plastic, there might be something leeching into the water? I don't know too much about how that works, exactly, but since your axolotl is unwell, it might be worthwhile to try keeping the tank bare-bottomed for a little while, just on the off chance that the substrate is causing/exacerbating the problem.

Maybe I'm over-thinking it. Hopefully, someone who understands plastic compounds and chemistry will see this and jump in.

Yeah it is very sad that an animal this adorable has not been studied much. And with these guys I guess the water clarity is all that can be done. I'm half tempt to just make sure the water is clean instead of trying so hard to cycle it.

Your question is not silly at all Jclee :happy:, it's glass pebbles and glass ice cubes. There is a tank divider that is acrylic and I used GE window sealant for it as it has been said to not have anything in there to kill mildew (of course I had the sealed divider soaked for a week and then drained before putting any of my axolotls in there.

I never though much of the plastic in the tank :bowl:...the hiding spot is plastic and really it was something I hand cut and smoothed so i don't know the exact type of plastic, like the typical hard plastic. I also have a silicone amoeba decoration in there and the tips of the amoeba are painted.

I suppose that part of the reason that I asked is that your axolotl's gills are a little short, which would suggest water quality concerns, but if you have been having trouble cycling the tank, that would do it.

As long as the sealant you used was 100% silicone, it is fine and will not harm your axolotl.

Personally, I might try fridging him/her before force-feeding. I know you said you were reluctant to try this method, but it has worked very well for a number of members with an array of health conditions. The colder water might slow their metabolisms, but it really does help them heal, and it would be less stressful than force feeding. Of course, if you have to force-feed de-wormer, I suppose you might as well kill two birds with one stone and get some food into him.

Did the vet do a fecal? It seems strange to deworm without evidence of parasites. While they are quite common in reptiles and amphibians, I would think that, since axolotls are so far removed from the wild (they've been captive bred for generations at this point), they are much less likely to suffer from parasites than other amphibians. (Of course, there is no guarantee, especially if you purchased it from a pet store that keeps other reptiles and amphibians, and doesn't sterilize its tanks frequently.)

*Edit -- another silly question: what kind of test kits are you using? Some can spoil and/or give false readings, which is why I am asking. What are your water parameter readings as of today? I know you had another thread on the cycling a while ago, but I wanted to check in. I'm sure the tank will get there in a little while.

Hello,

This morning at 6:30 am I woke up to find my axolotl who had pooped and there were quite a lot of black 2-3 mm things there, They were about the thickness of very coarse hair. Those 'things' weren't moving... I guess they are the worms...

I did a 50 percent water change in order to remove those things but I know in the end once he is done deworming I would have to do a complete water change so bye bye to cycling . I'll have to try cycling again. On the bright side, he did eat a single pellet by himself this morning. I don't really have another tub to put him in as he feels very uncomfortable in anything else.

The reason why I decided to not fridge would be because it takes me probably 5 minutes to force feed his medicine and food. During which I would have to take him out of the fridge for one hour for him to adjust to the temperatures and then put him back into the fridge which may be worse.

The vet didn't do a fecal test which I thought was interesting but at the same time I didn't have fecal to give her. She said she won't do the blood test yet as it would be the second step and she figured my axolotl would be really unhappy about it. I will try to catch one of his doo doos before I see her.

I used API freshwater testing kit so I believe I am good there. Keep ya posted! :happy: The ammonia is 0.25, Nitrate is 0 and Nitrite is 0.

HitmanSougo13 said:

Hello,

This morning at 6:30 am I woke up to find my axolotl who had pooped and there were quite a lot of black 2-3 mm things there, They were about the thickness of very coarse hair. Those 'things' weren't moving... I guess they are the worms...

Click to expand...

WOW! Do let us know when you find out exactly what they are. I am sorry to hear that you (and your axolotl) are going through all this, but at least you know what's going on, now.

(And, yup. API's well-reputed. Thanks for humoring me. I just wanted to make sure the little things were ruled out, but it sounds like today's bowel movement took care of the little-thing-ruling-out for us all. )

well I've finished administering the medicine. He's just always hiding lately and scared of me obviously. I should expect him to poop sometime. My vet is recommending that I force feed him and get him to gain weight first. She wants to see a weight gain as he was 149 grams when he was weighed at the vet, I guess slightly on the below average weight. Then she will look into the next step

Just wanted to give an update. so he was wiling to eat a fish pellet on his own :happy:...but that was because that pellet went into his hiding spot . So I think he may have develop a new trend to eat in his cave. but I can't confirm that yet. I am sad to admit, I force fed him 6 times to which his body looks fuller and no I have not hurt him during the force feeding as I wrap him in a towel. I'm going to try to get him to eat on his own for the next few days and then after that put him in the fridge and see if it helps. I've noticed he seems to dislike earthworms lately. He just spits them out.

Hooray he ate another pellet! I'm crossing my fingers that I don't have to force feed him anymore. =)

I am so glad to hear that he's worm free and that his appetite's coming back! That is excellent news. Did the vet ever ID the parasite species? I'd like to read more about them, to be honest.