New to forum, new tank build and pics

Hello-

I have been frequenting the forum for over a year and finally registered. I became very inspired by the many different tank builds and the idea of keeping a newt or salamander.
As a teenager and until 2006 I worked at a local pet store and learned a lot but my favorite experiences were assisting customers with custom tank builds and set ups.
There have been two 29G tall tanks on my backyard for several years and last month I pulled one out, cleaned it, and thought I would give an honest effort in creating a vivarium.
When I began the project my initial desire was to have a heavily planted tank, mostly of mosses. It was to contain a waterfall, a body of water, and a stream at the top. Now that the tank is complete I am considering adding a few creatures into it;
1-2 cherry shrimp
and/or
1 dward gourami or betta or blue paradise
and/or
1-2 small tree frogs
and/or
1-2 small salamander or newt


Without further delay please critique, advise, suggest or propose anything you can contribute to my tank build and choice of living creatures! I would really appreciate the feedback! I can take more photographs upon request, and of specific locations within the tank.

Picasa Web Albums - Jovien


<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rs0tUgy4ktOtXITOnTiV7Q?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_t2ONXRtwPnk/TEtnhosX01I/AAAAAAAAA8o/LYhzsvs3qdA/s400/DSC_3973.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jovienj/Vivarium?feat=embedwebsite">vivarium</a></td></tr></table>

I don't know if it's just me, but I can't seem to get the picture to load. Could you try posting it again?

jclee -

Thank you for posting to my thread! I have no idea why my pics won't load but i'll give it another shot. The pics below should be the right size for this forum. Also I will provide a link to my picasa album containing all the pics of my tank;









the link to the whole album;


Picasa Web Albums - Jovien - vivarium



Over the weekend I called all the pet stores and aquarium shops in my town asking if they had any newts or salamanders in stock but not a single one was to be found. Tuesday I stopped by the closest aquarium shop on a whim. The are about 70% saltwater fish and equipment but they just so happened to have a paddle tail newt in stock! I bought her (?) and re-designed my tank to accommodate more water space. This afternoon I also bought another water pump to increase the water flow and oxygenation.

I will post more pics in the coming weeks!

Welcome!

I think it looks pretty good.

I'll wait for the new pics to give advise if any is even needed.

What did you use to make that back ground?


I had Dwarf Honey Gouramis in my old newt tank and they were very sucessful too. I really wouldnt use up more space by adding fish but I would go with those of you really need to add fish. Most other Gouramis will attack and nip the newts.

Jaime -

Thank you for the suggestion of dwarf honey gouramis. I think they have very nice coloring and in my experiences seem to be fairly hardy.

In the tank there is a 'stream' that runs from the left to the right of the tank, ending in a water "dribble" that free falls about 8 inches into the water. My paddle tail has been hiding just under this area since Tuesday.
I mention the stream because i thought it would be neat to have some small minnows or baby danios live in it for a short time but they were immediately deposited into the water area.

Currently I have 1 wild moss I collected from a hike which is about 1" in diameter. It has been in my tank since Saturday and seems to be doing well so far. It was nearly all brown when I brought it home and is not a very nice dark green
Also there is some Christmas Moss that I have littered in different areas around the tank to see what locations will do well.
One Brazil Sword in the water
One fern (don't know what it's called :/ )
One bonsai banana tree (i think???)
Two other creek plants I collected from the hike, again I have no idea what they are called. Botany will be my next hobby apparently

One thing i'm worried about is the land area I created is compromised of 90% sphagnum moss that I bought from Home Depot. It does not appear to be dye'd green and seems to be pretty natural. It stays very moist/wet all day, and does have water going through it into my water area.

I will post updated pics tonight so please let me know if you'd like some macro shots of anything in the tank!

How much water does that water area hold? It might be tough to find small enough fish that would be happy and healthy in it.

It's looking good so far.

Well.... I'm old and blind so I'm going have to ask a few questions:
Is the waterfall pump or filter driven?
It appears that the waterfall kind of drops into the "pot" like pool in the middle and then drops to the water from there along with some falloff from the right?
It appears that the water quality is maybe a bit off?
How large is the tank itself?
I'm assuming you used that black pond/Great Stuff for the background?

Here are my thoughts (or guesses) as it stands now:
It's beautiful.
The water feature is too small to support many/any animals.
Amphibians are especially sensitive to poor quality water (though I think Paddle Tails may be hardier than most) and I think it would be difficult to keep the area habitable.
I would think that you will need a mechanical/chemical/biological filter to pump the water and help maintain water quality. .
I'd think about adding some topsoil to the moss mixture but you are probably fine since you aren't keeping burrowing animals.
I used to cover the background with black silicone and then drop sand, coconut fiber, whatever to sort of make it come "alive".
I think Paddle Tails are aquatic (they may also be mostly WC... I don't remember) so they may not need a spot to get out of the water... but I typically kept my water level even with the "ramp" from the land feature. I also bought Moss ( I can't remember what they call it... maybe pillow moss) off of Ebay and it did well for me though some have had problems keeping it alive.
Now....
I've had problems with piled gravel land features as the water circulation is typically inadequate and "things" begin to grow under there. I was able to use those clay balls sold in hydroponic shops behind a grid (I used lighting grids from home depot). With a filter placed in the corner of the land feature (and hidden in an easily accessible "box" made from Styrofoam covered in Great Stuff and silicone) with the pickup among the balls and the outflow draining into the water feature via a waterfall (of varying complexity) I was able to get decent circulation and no anaerobic bacteria or stagnancy problems.
I'm not really an advocate of species mixing though I do keep some Ghost Shrimp (Palaemonetes paludosus) in with my Axolotls as a cleanup crew.
I talk too much.

Mac-

Thank you for the questions, and I apologize for not getting back to this thread sooner with updates.

As of today, the waterfall is pump driven. The water pump is a MiniJet 404 (106 gph) set to MAX. It is currently located bottom left of tank, fully submerged. It feeds through a 1/4 tube all the way to the top and creates a very small stream/overflow that runs the full length of the tank.
The stream/overflow has two "waterfalls". One dribbles into the "pot" located directly in tank center. This "pot" overflows also, in front, and keeps the sphagnum moss very wet in that location. The stream/overflow also has a carved section on the right side, directly above the water. The water dribbles out and creates was I had hoped would be a very strong waterfall, but isn't quite. The 'pot' was supposed to look like a hollowed tree trunk. It currently does not feed directly into the water.
Below there are new, current photos of my tank. Currently the water is tinted a slight brown due to tannins leaking from bark I have used in the tank. I am anticipating this will diminish when I perform a water change this weekend.
The tank I have used is a 29G "Eclipse Show/Tall" tank. Its dimensions are as follows;
24"tall x 24"wide x 12.5"deep. The water level is at 8.5" from the bottom which I am estimating to be around 8 gallons, plus water in the tube and stream/overflow and "pot".
The background began as a thin sheet of Styrofoam, which I applied two and a half cans of "Touch 'n Foam LANDSCAPE Exterior Filler-Adhesive". I chose the LANDSCAPE because it claims "fish safe" and "won't harm plants". It is primarily sold as a spray and foam product for use in outdoor environments such as ponds and waterscaping projects.

Here are new pics, with some close ups;

THAT is awesome. I might put a few more aquatic plants (java moss maybe) in there to help with water quality... but it is GREAT. You've completely solved the issues I was concerned about and it's a beautiful Viv to boot. You done good.
Hopefully a newty person will pipe up... but I think that would be fine for a Paddle Tail. Brilliant.

That looks really good, and once the plants settle in and grow it will be lush!
I wouldn´t house a Pachytriton there, though...it won´t be an ideal home for the requirements of such an species.
Perhaps some Eurycea would do much better, i don´t know.

Mac, Azhael-

Thank you both for the kind words!

Mac-
The small clumps of moss found across the different pictures is Christmas Moss, as the local pet store was out of Java Moss and I absolutely "had" to have some that day! I will purchase some Java Moss as soon as I am able. Additionaly, while we are on the subject of moss I have saved several clear plastic 'to go' containers from my recent dining excursions. I will be testing the different "blend the moss with yogurt/buttermilk/beer and milk" and grow them inside of these containers, in my backyard. Hopefully I will be able to cultivate some high yields of Christmas Moss, Java Moss, and local mosses.

Azhael-
Currenly my Pachytriton is housed in the above-pictured tank. I realize that waterflow is a fairly important aspect to proper Pachytriton housing and as such I have installed a second Mini-Jet 404 (106gph) which I have just below the water level, spouting tank water up out of the water to promote oxygenation and a current. What, specifically, would you recommend that I change or do differently? I would like to provide the best living situation that I possibly can, and am not opposed to creating a new environment outside of this existing tank .

Thank you again for your suggestions and comments!

I personally like the first decision.

Jamie -

Sorry, but I'm having some trouble understanding what decision you are referring to. Are you agreeing with Mac that I should buy a lot more Java Moss?

Thank you for your support, and I apologize for my confusion.

No, I feel that the first decision to make the first design was better IMO.

Might not be as well suited for Newts but it was more pleasing to look at aesthetically.

I would prop up the false bottom with some PVC. You can either paint the PVC black with Krylon fusion or dye it in RIT dye if you have something big enough to fit it in.

I would paint the sides and back. Just conceal some of it as not to expose the infra structure so much and it would look a lot better.

If you wanna get real fancy, you could spray foam on the PVC and take a torch or lighter to it and color it the same as the BG.

BTW, dont cross your fingers on the tannins. It will take more than one water change. You could drop some carbon or other filter media that absorbs such stuff in the mean time but make sure to keep up with changing the carbon out if thats what you use cause once exhausted it will leach it all back out.

Azhael said:

I wouldn´t house a Pachytriton there, though...it won´t be an ideal home for the requirements of such an species.
Perhaps some Eurycea would do much better, i don´t know.

Click to expand...

As far as I can tell you do! You seem to know a LOT about everything! (insert thumbs up emoticon here).

JWERNER said:

No, I feel that the first decision to make the first design was better IMO.

Click to expand...

Not sound like the cantankerous old guy I am..... but I can guarantee you that the piled up wet gravel would cause a problem. Been there, tried that, paid for it.

What problem did you run into?

I had done set ups like that for years with out any problems.

When the pump is in the gravel it still keeps water in the gravel circulated to a point but it does it slowly which is actually a good place for beneficial bacteria ( dark and slow ) so long as detritus does not build up. The pump would start to reduce flow and I just used a bicycle pump like the one below to back wash the pump before a water change. Stick it in the outlet of the water feature and pump it.



If you allow it to go stagnant and allow any small particles of substrate to pass then it can become septic.

Even with the pump in the back corner of the gravel the water flow at the front of the "pile" was inadequate and that became a problem. Maybe with a bigger pump?
After inquiring on some other forums I was advised to avoid the large gravel piles. It's worked better for me.
I also like filters which eliminated the backflow option. I never thought about it as while it might speed up the pump it just pushed the gunk back into the gravel. It seems as if there would be a finite end to that option as well and a resultant build up of toxic bacteria. I'd have to think about that one some more. It might be fine if there where few or no animals in the water feature.
I found that the clay balls worked much better... though stacking them is certainly a "bit" of a problem. But a "cage" made of lighting grid was simple to construct, left a "clear" area around the filter intake(s), and allowed me to pull the filter in and out quite easily. YMMV.

False bottoms work out great and are something to think about if you have the means to construct one but I am curious to know what it was that you were told to deter you from doing such a set up as the first?

In fact, larger gravel is better so long as the animals cant swallow it. The larger the gravel the more free the flow is. Pea gravel can cause a problem and get clogged more easily.

The point of back washing/revers flow is to get all the " gunk " out of the gravel and into the water column so it can be siphoned out, not just to leave it behind.

I'm not sure what exactly you are asking me? Are you asking me why I tried piled gravel in the first place? If so... it was a turtle tank and I didn't know what I was doing.

Here's the way I ended up building my Dart tanks and this is what works (ed) for me. In the (poorly) picture below you can see my set up. Hopefully it will make sense. Clay balls (filled.. not like my sample pile) in the bottom held in place by light grating (about 5/8" thick with 1/4 ich holes... my representation is lousy) above and beside. Pump or Filter in rear corner in light grid box. Grid false bottom held up by 2" PVC pipe cut to size. Grating then covered by fine mesh screen.

With no grating and a pile of gravel where the clay balls are I ended up with water quality problems.
That's pretty much the setup in the first picture(s) up top. In my experience it's just asking for trouble.
Does that make any sense?