Starting the set up and cycle for my future baby!!!

So I have this 48''l x 18''w x 20''h aquarium for my future axolotl or two. I put 40 gallons of water in yesterday and it filled 2/3rds of the aquarium. I bought an API freshwater master test kit, a 40 gallon Tetra in-tank filter (three stage filtration) , some play sand for substrate (which says not to use in aquariums), and 7 gold fish to help start the cycling process along.

As I was rinsing the pre-rinsed sand for the third time, the water was still muddy looking and notice the "Do Not use in aquariums" so I think I may be at a loss with the sand for now....or am I??? What do you guys suggest??? Should I go ahead and start cycling now without substrate (This is my first experience)??? Will I have to recycle the tank when I decide to do the substrate or can I keep rinsing what I have and use it anyway???

Any help or.02 will be appreciated. I want to get this going!!!


Thanks,
Derek

Hi Derek
I believe the general consensus on 'play-sand' is that it's fine to use.
If you can provide details of the Brand name,etc of the sand that will help.
I am guessing that it's silica-based, which would be ideal.
If you use sand as a substrate, it will increase the surface-area available for the beneficial bacteria to colonise and so help in the cycling process.
I wouldn't advise a depth of over maybe a inch for the sand, to minimise potential water quality problems.
Make note of the daily readings with the API kit, as this is essential in monitoring the cycling process.
I presume that the goldfish will be re-housed before the axies are introduced.
That's a really nice big space for a couple of axies to explore!
Hope this helps, and best of luck :happy:

Edit: Forgot to say that a long-held tradition in rinsing seems to be this;
Half fill a bucket with sand a place the end of a hose-pipe deep into it.
You'll want to do this outside!
Keep the water running through the sand with the occasion stir until the water runs clean.
For a last rinse, use treated water (Aquasafe,etc, to get rid of chlorine/chloramine, etc)
If any pieces of gravel are found in the sand, they should be removed.
If you do a pH test of some day-old tap-water, then add some sand to a bucket of water and test the pH after a day or two, any major difference in the readings might prove a concern.
PS. The cynic in me wonders if the store that sells 'play-sand' also sells 'fresh-water aquarium sand' that is probably the same item, but repackaged with a price-hike!

Thanks for the info Ken. I've decided to go without substrate until I get the hang of this whole cycling thing...I want to start out slow and not have to deal with tremendous changes in water quality right now ( I read the "substrate" column). The goldfish are just there to help me with the cycling process....they will be removed before I get my little buddy. I have nonchlorinated well water that I put in yesterday(there are still lots of bubbles hanging onto the glass) and the filter and goldfish today......should I wait until tomorrow to do the initial test or do it now???? I think I might have messed up with the in tank filter....I didn't even think about the motor changing the water temp until it was paid for and installed. Do you think this will be an issue???? There is very little current coming from the spill way, so little that a little goldfish just swam up to it for a bite to eat!!!

Thanks again,
Derek

P.S. I went to the hardware store for the sand...still $10 for two bags!!!

Just out of curiosity, I tested the water. The results are: pH 6.6, Ammonia 0 ppM, Nitrite 0 ppM, and Nitrate 0 ppM. Like I said before, I'm very new to all this water testing thing. I understand that levels will change, but is this a good start or what???

I want to do a drift wood theme with artificial plants since the bottom will be rather boring. With that being said, how do I prep the drift wood for the aquarium??? I know about soaking it in a bucket for a week, but how do I make sure I don't contaminate the aquarium with unwanted bacteria or parasites??? I read somewhere in my searches to but a bit of bleach in with the water, I personally don't think that would be a great idea since I have no chlorine in the water to begin with and would like the good bacteria to use the drift wood as well... Pour boiling water on the soaked wood???

I know I'm being a pain in the butt asking all these questions....I just want a happy,healthy Axolotl!!!

Derek

Hi, the being a "pain in the butt" isn't that at all!!!

Very much the opposite!
Asking questions and such demonstrates both your interest and your dedication to their care, and is always welcomed.:happy:

As far as the water readings go, it's really monitoring the progress in a dynamic way, rather than the actual readings of the tests to have an idea of the condition of the water. ie. looking for the right changes in the readings as the tank cycles. Post your readings as things change and we'll be able to advise you.
Daily tests are recommended at this stage.
Your freshwater API kit may not seem cheap at first, but will last for ages.
Your pH isn't too low, but it's something to keep an eye on.
Potentially the wood in the tank might contribute to lowering the pH? I'm not sure.
Might be worth testing a sample of day-old tapwater....
If the wood leaches anything to make the tank a slightly discoloured, then this is tannic acid and is quite natural. In fact, it has either anti-fungal or anti-bacterial qualities (can't remember)
If you're looking for nice pieces of wood, remember that 'mopani' is also spelt 'mopane' in search engines ( Colophospermum mopane)
Enough of my ramblings....
Anyway Derek, hope this helps :happy:

Thanks for the input Ken, I'll do all my research on this site only so that I don't get any mixed info...I have a long way to go and a lot to learn before I even consider purchasing an axie... Funny story, the pet shop I went to haven't even heard much about them, in fact, the guy asked me how to spell and pronounce "axolotl" and then made a stupid joke that I didn't get....." Do you mean a muddog?" he asked. Noooooooo!!!! Muddogs are everywhere around here"wild" and both the guys was tryin to tell me that I couldn't possibly keep one of those alive and I gave up and walked out the door...

Eeek!!!!

Also, I don't know which State you live in, as for climate, etc, but the axies prefer an ambient temp of less than about 70*F.
Many people think that because they are Mexican (originally) that they therefore can cope with higher temps. Not so.
The native axie habitat was fed by mountain streams so that the temp is suprisingly low, considering their relative proximity to the equator.
There are loads of threads on 'cooling' so feel free to have a wander!

I live in extreme N. Georgia. I turned the A/C off when I initially filled the tank and the temp. stayed right at 68 F for 24 hours until I installed the in tank filter, now it's up to 74 F and holding. It will be cool enough by the time this tank cycles I think....I will not introduce an axolotl until I can maintain a max of 70 F....Two goldfish were dead when I got home from work today, those little turds are messy!!!! I will do another test tonight, or should I do a 20% change and then test,ooooorrrrrr do a test before and after????

Do you know why the goldfish died? If one died then it could be for a number of reasons, but for two to go at the same time would indicate that there's a problem.

The ideal temp for an axie is in the 60s *F, if it goes into the 70s *F for more than a short while then the axie will become stressed.

It might be an idea to buy a stick-on strip thermometer for the outside of the tank, and a digital thermometer as well (with it's probes in the water the other end of the tank), so you can take an average temp if the two readings are different....both thermometers are very cheap to buy.

It wouldn't hurt to do a test before and after (at least that's what I do) the water change. It gives you more of an idea of the syaye of the tank, and only takes 5 minutes. Remember to shake the Nitrate-testing bottles for a minute as instructed, otherwise you may get false readings.

I'm interested why the goldfish died (I know nothing about goldfish), can you shed any light?

Regards, Ken

I think the two goldfish might have died from poor conditions in the pet store, I don't know, I fed them twice yesterday, they all seemed to be eating and twice today. All of my test readings are the same as yesterday,except the pH being a little higher.... The water did seem a little cloudy before I siphoned all the poop and water (20% change).

Is it possible for my personal well to already have good bacteria established??? Meaning that my water doesn't need cycling??? I know this is only day three, but I would have expected more of a change...

The first test was done on the water 24 hrs after filling, todays test was done with filter and fish after 24hrs. I think I'm gonna give it a couple of days.

Thanks

Hi Derek,
The 'friendly' bacteria in the tank tend to grow in a micro-film, a very thin layer that coats the surfaces of the tank interior/ornaments/plants,etc, rather than in the water itself.
I wouldn't imagine that using well-water would speed up cycling significantly, but you will still need to cycle the tank.
Think more in terms of weeks than days for the cycling process to be established.

I would be interested to hear from anyone else about whether the death of the goldfish is a sign that something isn't right, I mean from a potential water-pollutant/disease aspect.....

Hope this helps :happy:

Thanks Ken....The other 5 goldfish seem to be doing fine, although the water is a tad cloudy again.

I turned the A/C back on last night and the temp is back down to 68F....I understand that this is a long process and I am patient.

Sorry Derek, I must apologise

I overlooked you saying that there were 7 fish to begin with.......

I was thinking that you put 2 fish in there and they both died.....

So that's far less of a worry in terms of potential water problems, and you're probably right in that you can expect to lose the odd one or two sometimes, as you couldn't guarantee its health in the pet-shop.

Cycling can take a while, and I'm thinking that it's going to be probably November(!) until my 3 foot tank is ready for its axies.....although that's more a case of me wanting to get the set-up just right (12 volt lights, pump/filter,etc) than just waiting for the cycle to be established......

On the other hand, I've now got a fully cycled tank (that I set up in the summer) which will become home to a Spanish Ribbed Newt (P waltl) tomorrow morning

Best of luck Derek
KW

Thanks again for all the advice Ken. I still don't understand how you "know" when your tank is cycled????

Post up some pics of the newt in its new set up!!! I like looking at every ones critters and their homes....

I'll describe the readings for my 24"x12"x12" newt tank;
Ammonia between 0 and 0.15ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate less than 5.0ppm
pH 7.7

One type of bacteria break down the ammonia to produce nitrites, and another bacteria breaks down the nitrites to produce nitrates.

The cycling process is basically the process in which to establish and maitain an environment for the different bacteria to establish, and maintaining that balance.

The animal produces ammonia as a waste, the bacteria feed, then the remaining nitrates are minimised by appropriate water changes.

In addition, I can't stress too highly the benefits of live plants in this situation, as opposed to fake plants.

As the tank cycles you'll see build-ups of the chemicals; if you imagine the levels plotted on a graph you'd see a 'spike' where a level would be reached which will then decrease through bacterial action and water-changes.

When each reading has settled down nicely, and there is a consistency in the readings (maybe 6 weeks?) can you consider it cycled.

A thing to consider is that when this tank is up and running, the next tank will be easier to cycle because you could transfer a bit of substrate and the filter cartridge (which contain bacteria) to kick-start the cycle!!

(I'll post piccies of the newt......probably loads )

Cool, thanks again man!! I was considering a couple of live plants, but the ones at the pet shop I went to had loads of algae on them and didn't look all that healthy.... I read on here that if the pH stayed at around 6.6 the ammonia wouldn't be as harmful...the higher the pH the worse the ammonia....

My java moss (Vesicularia dubyana) and java fern (Microsorium pteropus) I both got from ebay. There're very hardy and can tolerate low light.

I bought some Anubias barteri nana from the local shop which are doing great!

Very tolerant plants, and cheap too !

You'll always get 'hitch-hikers' with your plants, mostly small snails in my experience, never had an algae problems so far....

1 part (pure, not scented,etc) bleach to 19 parts water solution, should disinfect most hardy plants, immersed for 10 minutes; remember to rinse well before adding to tank!

Potassium permanganate is used for similar effect, but I can't remember details.

The pH, hardness (do you get 'scale' in your kettle? btw) and other factors will affect the ammonia's degree of potential harm to the animal, but the goal is to encourage the growth of the bacteria that absorb the ammonia, and excrete nitrites, in this instance, for then there'll be excess nitrites which the next set of colonising bacteria will feast on, producing nitrates which you will keep at low levels by water-changes.

Take care
KW

Nothing in the kettle, however, I do have to replace my holding tank for the well every other year because of silt/sand... Do I clean the media(not bio-sponge) at every water change???

Lol, I've done a bit of research but I still have questions....

Your a big help!!!

Keep the water changes to just that....bacteria live in the filter parts....what sort of filter is it? I'm not sure what you mean.

Questions are always welcomed here and can hopefully be answered.
That's the beauty of this forum.
Just the fact that you're asking questions on the forum demonstrates that you care for your future axolotls :happy:

KW

Edit: Another thought is that you have spring water (lucky you!) and so hopefully no chlorine or chloramine in it.
The 'Tetra Aquasafe that I use to rid my tap water of these, also neutralises some of the toxic trace elements that can be found in tap water.
I know nothing about your well-water but it might not be a bad idea to add a small amount of something like this to the water in the bucket, before you add it (there're other brands,btw).

I keep about 10 litres of bottled supermarket spring-water (7.5 pH, mineral content listed) in the house generally, and please remember never to use 'distilled' water (for steam-irons, car batteries,etc)

I'm looking forward to seeing your set-up

It's a double sided mesh filter with carbon between ( rinsed the food and poo off of it yesterday)....and then there is a bio-foam filter that I know I'm not supposed to clean...