Question: UPDATE on axie tails

Alright. It started all over here: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...axolotl/71567-axolotls-tail-disappearing.html

I've noticed my little albino axie has a bloody patch on it's tail and that he has his tail raised. I thought there was something stuck in him that he tried to poop out but I found out that the wound on his tail was so painful for him that he held his tail off the ground.

I tried to see if I could get a loose piece of skin off to watch under a microscope if I could find something. But when I touched it he was all freaking out and "breakdancing" and trying to "grab and bite" his tail to get rid of the pain.
Like this:
YouTube - Axie with painful wound on his tail

Right now the wound is still there. I have him separated and do daily water changes.

But now I've found out that my other axies in the other tank start to develop weird patches too. My big axie male has some loose skin on it's tail, the tail fin of my two leucistics (also the male) looks a bit.... cloudy and milky. (I'll post some pics down here).
At the bottom of their feet I notice some black parts. My albino also had some little black parts and I don't know if they turned out to this red bloody parts. Sometimes their feet look a bit red but somehow disappears. My smaller leucistic female also has a reddish little patch on her... upper lip.

I don't see anything weird on my wild types. Maybe they're too dark to see. But I guess if it affects the lighter ones why not the wildtypes?

I somehow guess it's a parasite or something that have travelled somehow (maybe the net I was using) from the one tank to the other... Or could it be the sand?

Temperature is fine (about 16 degrees) and the water parameters are still the same. kH was a bit too low when I added an almond leaf to the tank but after removing it, doing water changes it's pretty well normal again (not dangerously low).

I could get a bit of loose skin off of my axies tail and watched it under the microscope and I found something... The vid:
YouTube - Axolotl skin with parasites?
The first part of the video shows an amoeba-like slow moving thing... The second part shows a light pretty fast moving small thingy... I don't know if it's something bad. It's not the best quality but it was all I could make of it.

So... I'm really starting to freak out over here. I don't want to let them die if there's an easy way to get rid of it somehow.
So how can I help them?
Do I have to fridge them all?
Is there a medicine I can use to get rid of those beasties if that's what causes all this trouble.
Do I have to clean both tanks totally? New sand and stuff? (I also wanted to add whiter sand one day, because I can see dirty stuff better on it)
Salt baths? Tea baths? I don't know a vet around here who can also treat axies (not even reptiles when I had a sick snake a while ago).
Other things?
And I guess I have to treat them all before it gets worse or so.
Please please people. Help. I feel so bad for them and I don't want to make them suffer. It really breaks my heart when I see my little albino axie spinning around and trying to grab his tail because of the pain.

The pictures:
1. My albino with his tail rised and red painful patch.
2. Close up of how it looked yesterday. Pretty painful!
3. The bottom of my leucistics foot. (Not the dark toe tips but I mean the other darker flakes or so)
4. Tail from the side...
5. The tail of my big axie leucistic male. Also loose skin!
6. The upper lip of my leucistic female also shows a little red patch... (Not the best pic)
7. The "milky" and "cloudy" looking tail fin... I guess that's how it starts...
8. How the tail looked today. Still painful!

(Oh... and edit: Something similar I found about patches and the tail fin disappearing: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...-axolotl/52192-black-red-patches-axolotl.html But I still don't know what it is)

auchh :'(

If there is a bacteria or something like the video shows, would it die in the fridge??

I think it's worth a try, if those things are making this, they are in the tank so I guess you will have to completely clean the tank to kill those too

I'm so sorry for your axies, it looks painful, it hurts to see them like that

I hope someone with more knowledge can make something from all of what you've found

I've found something about the protozoan called Chilodonella.

And it also says that it's a cold water parasite. It doesn't mean I'm sure it's this or how to treat it. But I've seen pictures of fish with it and they also had that... white milky stuff on their skin that looks like that my leucistics have on their tail.

I found a video about that Chilodonella thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8BY3VEeS54
Is it me or does it look pretty much like that thing I've found?

there's a lot of info on internet:
Chilodonella

I've found this:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...50720-parasites-medication-does-not-work.html

apparently that parasite does not like salt, so I would try that if you haven't already
However, it would probably make the axie's skin be irritated and cause pain... but I guess you have to kill the parasite whatever it takes...

I don't know why you keep telling each other that applying salt to the water will cause pain. You are applying human responses to these animals and you are overstating the possibility of pain since the amount of salt in the water is so low. I have presented several bits of information regarding the proper use of salt as a maintenance strategy and now you've waited several more days debating "what to do." Oceanblue also confirmed what I was saying and offered a great deal more information about what to do, how to do it and why. Since you're experiencing difficulty with several of your animals it seems imperative to me that you act, and act quickly.

Watching that animal biting at his tail was very sad indeed and is about as much evidence as anyone needs to diagnose some type of parasite. I urge you to treat the whole tank with Holtfreter's solution as suggested by Oceanblue. It's a mix of easily obtained salts, it is a low level of salt treatment and I think it's the only hope for your animals.

daremo said:

I've found this:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...50720-parasites-medication-does-not-work.html

apparently that parasite does not like salt, so I would try that if you haven't already
However, it would probably make the axie's skin be irritated and cause pain... but I guess you have to kill the parasite whatever it takes...

Click to expand...

This animal's skin is already irritated and he's in great pain. Don't anthropomorphize this situation to the extent that you are reluctant to act.

A salt bath is the most recommended solution for skin parasites, bacteria and fungus for a very good reason. There is plenty of information in this forum on how to safely do this. The salt bath is over in minutes and your axy will feel a lot better without the nasties eating away at his skin. Salt removes the slime coat and any parasites along with it, and encourages your animal's skin to regenerate the protective slime that will keep the bad guys out, and encourage healing of the wound!

I also think treating the entire tank with Holtfreter's solution is a good idea to discourage further infestation of whatever is making your animals sick!

Your first video just about broke my heart. Salt bathing doesn't hurt them when done properly! Please do it!

Thanks so much. I will reall ydo the salt baths to save my babies.
About that Holtfreter's solution thing. I've searched for it and I still don't get it.
(and besides that my English isn't that great and I don't know if all the types of salt used for it can be found over here in the Netherlands. Is there a pretty easy to understand How To? I can't find it)

Once again, thanks so much.

My axie is not showing any bloody veins today ...

The reason why I don't want to add salt to the tank is that I am unsure of how to make the mix and I am afraid I will make things worse... actually both my axies are doing fine with the almond leaves, however since sometimes they show the tip of the tail or the toes reddish I wonder if the problem is the soft water...

I don't want to mess with water chemistry so not to make things bad, I am testing a bucket with 10 Litres of water and 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt, should I use that water as replacement? is that safe to add to the tank?

I think that aquarium salt that you buy at any aquarium is fine.
I also read that kosher salt is suitable

what you do is add 2 teaspoons of salt per litre of dechlorinated water, soak the axie for about 10-15 mins and return him to the tank, if you can make sure the container is at the same temp as the tank

I hope it helps!!

Thanks. I still had some aquarium salt over here and used it for a salt bath and it looks like they feel better after they come out. My little albino wasn't "biting" his tail today, so that's also good to see.

Sometimes he still has his tail raised, sometimes it's lowered a bit. Just like now.
So I hope the best for my axies.

great news!!

I guess you should keep doing the salt baths then, to all of them...

but then again, maybe the tank is already contaminated??

Nothing seems to work. I just don't get it anymore.
Everything I've done seems like it's wrong. The tail just got worse and it's pretty much of a big wound/hole/thing.

I give them salt baths, clean water often, two of my axies don't want to eat (my albino and my big male who was always a bit... anti-worm...) I've bought an anti-parasite-thing....

I'm thinking about cleaning the whole tank. Remove the sand and stuff.
I just don't know what else to do.

If only someone knew exactly what it was and how to treat it... I'm starting to think that maybe it's something else and that I'm just stupid.

I feel desperate and I think I shouldn't have kept axies... Because I'm just dumb. Poor lotls, they haven't done anything wrong....

It probably is all my fault and it's because of me that this problem has started.

But I guess no one can help..... It's probably something.... unique.

I'm so sorry to hear that... I wish I'd know what to do ...

I guess no vet available there that can help?
Have you tried the veterinary school?? they may have an herpetologist...

I really have no other clue... did you keep up with the salt baths or stopped them? maybe it will get "worse" and then kill the bad bacteria and recover.. I honestly don't know what else to try, sorry ...

If you live near a zoo then they might have a vet which may be able to help you out. I have no clue where you live but there are quite a few zoos scattered around The Dutchlands

Ha, I'm from Ede. So I think Burger's Zoo in Arnhem will be the best...

Hmm, I did the salt baths to all of them. Like three days in a row. And now I stopped and watch if I see any improvements. The only thing I notice is that the black spots under the feet of my leucistic gal (the third picture of the first post in this thread) are actually... pretty much disappearing. Or it's just me...

I have them all out of the tank. They're now in 3 different smaller tanks with bare bottom and nothing else in there. I've put a lot of salt in the main tanks (and even the planaria that's in there is dying of it, so that's actually a good thing too, lol). It starts to look like a bayou in there now. It also looks pretty abandoned without my cuties in it.

I think I'll have to get everything out and clean it all up. If everything is done I have to restart the tank but I'll wait with sand and other stuff until I'm sure it's safe in there.
Because I don't know what else to do.

If only my axies showed a sign of improvement then I know that I'm on the right path.

Thanks for trying to help. I know this is a pretty weird and unknown situation. There isn't much to find on the internet and stuff so that also makes me kind of... desperate sometimes.

I've found that axies are studied only for regeneration and such things, with "human" application in mind but not to know about the species.. at least here there's little knowledge of them, in the aquariums all they care is to sell them, they cost less than a packet of cookies and if you ask them when you have any kind of issue they have no clue...

When I had problems I asked my vet and he said in school they don't study these type of animal and actually suggested to bring the axie for "experimentation", not in the bad way but kind of trial and error which I'm not willing to do with my little one...

I guess now all you can try is the known treatments, such as salt baths, tea baths, fridging, etc
I guess you can clean the whole tank, if it gets rid of the problem then it's much better to cycle again than having the problem in there all the time.

let us know how it goes
I've found this: Herpetology Links | Environmental Job Listings | Herpetological Journals
It has a list of herpetologists organisations, maybe you can find one close to you that can give a clue

HI Morrison,

Just wanted to say hope your axie is ok and I know how you feel. I am new to axolotls aswell and since I have had mine I seem to have had continious problems aswell, the last things being fungus and cloudy eyes and I began to feel like you to the point of I thought I should rehome them but am hoping mine have turned a corner and as a few people have said to me on here some axies are prone to fungus others not so dont lose heart you are doing your best and as usual so are the lovely people on caudata!!! Good luck :happy: