Treating Axolotls with Homeopathic remedies.

I know this may be very very controversial.

I would like peoples opinions on what they think about usuing a non alcohol based remedy (I don't know what effect 1/8 of a drop of alcohol would have on them). It would stay active in the water for a few hours before evapourating.

My mother is a homeopath and has sucessfully treated humans, dogs, horses, rats, chickens and fish. The fish had the best reaction and has worked very very well. I have used a rememdy called "rescue remedy" when Sunny had fungus and it had a great effect on him and he calmed right down.

I would say that they would absorb it very easily due to the nature of their skin.

I would like to try and treat Sunny with the remedies but only for basic things like wounds and bruises etc as to use any other ones i'd need to consult him :grin:

I know many won't believe in it or even heard of it but I have seen it first hand wourk very very well and would like to give it a go for Sunny.

Thanks guys

I find this whole subject a joke when it is applied to animals. I haven't found the first bit of scientific information out there to prove that homeopathic remedies really work. In my opinion, it is just a glorified placebo affect.

In the US, homeopathic remedies aren't approved by the FDA for use in animals. In some countries, like the UK, homeopathic remedies can only be administered by a qualified veterinary surgeon.

All in all this seems like a good way to do more harm than good to your axie.

Yes, throwing more water in an aquarium will help you cure your axolotl...

Warning: the following post might be a bit of an insult to both you and your mother and both of your intelligences.

In my opinion homeopathy is one of the most stupid concept mankind has ever come up with. What it basically is a misuse of the placebo effect and trusting on time to cure things. The only thing homeopathic doctors do is listen to ramble on and on about your sore knee and then advise you to take something which is basically plain water for three weeks, after which time the body would've taken care of it all by itself. The other part of it is that patients usually feel like someone's listening to their complaints and that usually relieves them of their complaints as most of it seems to be psychological.

Homeopathy is an alternative form of medicine for a reason: it couldn't prove its claims when it was being tested. If it could've then every doctor and surgeon would be following its practices for a small bit at least but they aren't. All homeopathic "cures" are basically a tiny amount of a single dose recommended by a doctor that you would usually take ever x hours you need to take it, and then that is dissolved into a few m³ of water (I would look up a clip from Richard Dawkins about this at this moment but I have to be going soon, look up "Enemies of Reason" by him) and then it is put into this tiny bottle leaving you with water and if you're lucky about one molecule of active ingredient in it. Not really a cure in my eyes, more a placebo.

The only thing that homeopathy has some kind of "proof" to treat are common ailments like the common cold and flu, and both of those will be cured by the body given enough time (it takes the immune system about 10 days from first infection to learn to fight a disease). All it really does is relieve some of the symptoms related to it which is, again, mostly thanks to the placebo effect.

In the case of axolotls or other pets I hardly see how homeopathy could be of any help as it relies on psychology so much and axolotls would hardly understand any of it. Throwing in a homeopathic "medicine" into an aquarium would even dissolve the active ingredient even more and make it virtually non-existant.

I would say more on this subject, but I should've left the house some 5 minutes ago. Just go watch stuff like "Enemies of Reason" by Richard Dawkins and other skeptical documentaries about the subject. I believe I have another good one here someone between the dozens of documentaries I have

Good to hear your opinion of a different kind XeryusTC.
Over here it is not often heard of but quite a few strong believers.

When I read the reports done on it and what people say I don't believe it but when it has be applied to me or one of my animals it has worked. I guess it's all chance in the end.

My understanding of homoeopathic is that a drug or chemical is diluted millions of times in water. So much so that it is actually possible for there to be no molecules of the original chemical left in the "solution" and that some mysterious "memory power" which water allegedly holds then lets the recipient experience some of the benefits of the chemical without actually having it in their system.

It seems to me if this is the case then no harm can be done by administering such a solution as you are just adding some perfectly clean water to your tank.

I would not as far as to scoff such an idea, yet. I have a scientific background based on physics, electronic engineering and computer science and I am a firm believer in proof. However it's a well known fact that we don't know what about 99% of the matter in the universe is made out of which indicates that we have a hell of a lot to learn still about science. In other words, weird stuff happens - other stuff is made up rubbish ... one day we might find out what is rational and what is not.

I wouldn't dismiss homoeopathic remedies at all. I think however you need to be aware of what is in the medication, so research carefully. Please let us know more.

why woud you need to "treat" a small wound or bruise on an axie?

I've had my guys for only a relatively short time but i've seen them have their fair share of nicks, scrapes and bites.

My water is clean, the water is the right temp, my axies are healthy, fed well, housed well - and guess what? they heal just fine.

Chucking stuff into the tank of a healthy axie because they nicked the end of a tail is akin to me getting a leg plastered because i scraped my knee.

Waste of time

Bren

My question is exactly what's in it? Some homeopathic remedies contain "real" amounts of medication or herbals, in addition to the highly-diluted components (my opinion on the diluted ingredients is in agreement with Justin and Xeryus). Any ingredients present at a "real" concentration could be helpful, harmful, or have no effect.

blackdog said:

why woud you need to "treat" a small wound or bruise on an axie?

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Good point, often the best course of action is to make sure nature get's the chance to take it's course by making sure all your conditions are tip top. Otherwise don't interfere.

Thanks for your input guys! I have seen many people just toss something off as "just a bruise or scrap" and it's become something nasty and painful. So i'm just being cautious.

I'll do some more reserch on ingredients

Blaze said:

My mother is a homeopath and has sucessfully treated humans, dogs, horses, rats, chickens and fish.

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I think the idea of preparing your own homeopathic treatments could be intersting and if you carry things out scientifically it could be potentially valuable research. I think a fair bit of research has been done on homeopathy and although there are those who militantly disclaim it, others feel there is evidence to the contrary.

I dont think much research on homeopathy and axolotls has been done though ..

Blaze said:

I have used a rememdy called "rescue remedy" when Sunny had fungus and it had a great effect on him and he calmed right down.

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Blaze said:

I'll do some more reserch on ingredients

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I'm a little dissapointed. I'm trying my best to be open minded but I'm incredibly sceptical about what sounds like commercially prepared apparently magical formulas such as this "rescue remedy" As Jennewt said you dont know what additional things a company has thrown into this potion. Why not draw on your mothers experience and experiment with making your own "solutions" which you know to be safe and you know exactly what goes into it?

As far as treating fungus is concerned, please remember that fungus in lotl's is (metaphorically speaking) a lot like the cold bug or more seriously pneumonia is in human beings. The bugs which causes it are always present in the environment and in the lotl and the immune system is locked in a perpetual battle to fight it off. When your lotl comes down with fungus it's extremely likely to be because some conditions have somehow weakened its iummune system allowing the fungus to get the upper hand.

As an example I had a really bad outbreak of the cotton wool columnaris type a while back which made my two ill and killed all my minnows. I believe this outbreak was caused by the fact I had an extra axolotl in the tank (he was staying with me temporarily for summer) and I had then added a lot of live bloodworm. The tank I have at home is really just about big enough for two axolotls and no more. The bio-load became too great and tank conditions degraded and everything in the tank became ill. When I removed the extra load (ie. scooped out all the live bloodworm and did a double 50% water change) the fungus magically dissapeared within what seemed like minutes. It literally fell off!

A year or so ago I had an axolotl that kept loosing his tail tip, it was nasty as it seemed to be 'eroding'. It got shorter and shorter. I had tried salt baths, fridging and so on. I was at a loss on what to do next. Fortunately I was in the chat room asking about more details in tea baths and a member suggested using almond leaves or bark. Eva sent me a pack and it cleared up within days, and the tail grew back. I am pretty sure we had a conversation about the use of other homeopathic remedies , I believe that some of the German axolotl forum members where researching some homoeopathic cures. I'll see if I can confirm this.

Ah, almond leaves. These are widely used by frog keepers, and I think it's time that more caudate keepers took notice and tried them. I am currently doing some experiments of my own with these. These leaves produce a "real" amount of various substances in the water. I would call almond leaves an herbal remedy, but not a homeopathic remedy.

yeah I agree, almond leaves is like taking willow bark tea instead of asprin, whereas homeopathy is like filling your fuel tank with water, adding a few molecules of actual fuel and expecting it to run.

The rescue remedy was not commercially bought, I had my mum tailor make it for him. It wasn't to treat him, it was to calm him.

Thanks for your input guys.

Blaze said:

The rescue remedy was not commercially bought, I had my mum tailor make it for him. It wasn't to treat him, it was to calm him.

Thanks for your input guys.

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Sorry for jumping to conclusions ... I will now eat my hat in contrition. I think it was something about the name that made it sound like a commercial product.Personally I would be really interested in knowing what was in the rescue remedy solution. I hope this thread keeps on going!

Thats okay Steve

"Rescue Remedy" is just the general name for what it does.
It can be bought commercially and has pretty much the same as what my Mother made up just ours was a tad different. It definatley calmed Sunny down heaps and the salt baths stopped being so stressful for him.

hi blaze
I think this is a great idea. I would love to know more about it. With the lack of vets around to help care for our water friends, anything we can do will be a great help. This will give us something else to try when our tried and trusted methods are not working for us.
Please keep us informed.
lea

The question here is though: did your axolotl really calm down or did you perceive it to have calmed down. It is a known case that parents often think that their kids are more active when you let them have sugary drinks. The contrary is true though, the parents change their perception of the children while the kids stay equally active. This is more the case when the parents are very critical of their kids' behavior. It might be that you are in the same boat thinking that stuff works because you assume it does while actually it might not be working at all. That may actually be a good thing, not for the axolotl but for you as it makes you less stressed too Sometimes things just have a benefit for stuff that they aren't meant for

Manifest said:

yeah I agree, almond leaves is like taking willow bark tea instead of asprin, whereas homeopathy is like filling your fuel tank with water, adding a few molecules of actual fuel and expecting it to run.

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And this is my opinion on the whole thing.

'herbal remedies' such as almond leaves, are great, considering you know exactly what they're doing and why. i'm not even going to start of homepathic remedies, as you're experimenting with the animals - and that's the end of it. Someone who knows full well the implications and what it could cause, fine, but you're doing surgery with a blindfold on, and that's where i'm leaving my opinion on the matter.