Question: Does it take longer to cycle a big tank?

daremo · Nov 10, 2010

Hi
I set up my big tank 150 cm long x 30 cm wide x 35 cm tall and added a few decorations, an EHEIM liberty 150 HOB filter, pool filter sand, java moss and anubias and added two almond leaves from my old tanks and two new

the tank was filled with sand and water last thursday, finally today the water is quite clean (after doing several water changes to remove cloudiness from the sand) and I tested ammonia and nitrite and both are at 0
PH is 7.5 temp 19-20 C
I tested during this last week and all the time ammonia and nitrite show 0, I added a few reptomin pellets that I remove when they get mouldy... is it possible that the cycle hasn't started or that adding ornaments already populated with bacteria?
I can also see that the glasses have some white stuff like cotton and I read that those are also bacteria, I noticed limpets and some kind of "water flea" lives already in the tank and I had to remove an hydra too!

Anyway, do you think I'm on the right track? should I add more pellets? wait? does it take longer for a big tank to cycle?

dragonlady · Nov 10, 2010

If the filter is new, then it is doubtful that you have started to cycle. Even when I have started a tank using parts of an old tank, I usually get at least a trace reading of something in the new tank. I would say to use something that will decay faster than pellets before getting moldy. I have used a few fish flakes and just left them for a few days.

Honestly, I have found a larger body of water to cycle faster than a smaller one.

daremo · Nov 10, 2010

great

what can I use... I don't have other fish so no fish food... just pellets :'(

If I use pellets, should I leave them to rot? that would be after they mold? I usually remove them when they mold and thats about after 1 day of being there, maybe I am doing wrong removing them

Opacum · Nov 10, 2010

The cycle time can vary depending on what organisms are in the tank... Sand is going to be extremely difficult to get a good bacteria bed on. Did you set up the Eheim as a mechanical or biological filter? The limpet and hydra probably came in on the almond leaves from the old tank. What you want to do is leave things alone while the ammonia builds. So don't do water changes until you have a positive NitrAte reading. Agitating the sand will only disturb the bacteria bed and you'll keep getting white or grey cloudy water until you cycle. You probably would have been better off with the addition of an undergravel filter with powerheads and using a gravel substrate that was just big enough to NOT be swallowed by your inhabitants? OR, you could get a canister filter and set that up biologically and use the Eheim for mechanical filtration. What are you putting in the tank, Daremo?

Jennewt · Nov 10, 2010

I would guess that your cycle is going already, but it may go through a mini-cycle once you have the axolotl(s) in there. I wouldn't add pellets if they get moldy.

How many axolotls do you plan to add? Can you add them one-by-one over a period of time?

daremo · Nov 10, 2010

ok... I am more at lost now ...

What I did was add sand and water, a few plants, the almond leaves from already running tanks and a few ornaments
the filter I think is mechanical.. I am not sure but it has some pads with porous material in them and I also added one big porous (the ones that are use for internal sponge filter) to lower the current - the falling water falls on this sponge and then to the water thus it makes no noise and it doesn't disturb the water too much)

I also added air pumps and I divided the tank (90 cm and 60 cm) with an acrylic divided with holes because I will add a 18 cm axie and a 9 cm axie, so they will be on their own side until one grows up and catches with the other

And lastly, what I was doing was adding reptomin pellets to encourage the bacteria growing... they get moldy after being one day in the tank so I was removing them when I see them like that...

I can add the axies over a period, no problem as they will be separated, however the filter is in the "big" part of the tank so I don't know if the divider will affect the other side's cycle

So, should I add pellets? I can get dried shrimp to cycle too... should I consider the cycle has already started?

Opacum · Nov 10, 2010

OK, well the filtration and set-up sound fine as far as I can tell... it is just keeping the cycle going with sand that is going to be the issue. But adding the porous material to the Eheim will give you some biological filtration. The dividers shouldn't affect the cycling because you have holes between the compartments. Just keep testing and when you have a positive NitrAte reading you should be cycled. Just watch the axoltls if they start to stress if the ammonia or nitrItes get to high. Look for clamped gills and possible sloughing and lesions if the ammonia gets to high. Watch the Ph as well because it may have a tendency to get lower as the ammonia begins to climb. I am sure your cycle will start once you see the ammonia start to increase. When you get NitrIte then you know definitely your cycle has begun... When ammonia and nitrIte go up and back down to zero and you get a nitrAte reading, then you can do a 25% water change siphoning from the bottom of the tank and you should be completely cycled. A cycle can take 6 weeks depending on the size of the tank. Be patient and keep testing! Good Luck!

daremo · Nov 10, 2010

ahhhhhhhhh I don't want to add the axies for them to get stressed....

I don't get why the sand should be an issue... I have bare bottom tanks at the moment and they cycled with it...
The PH is steady at 7.5 at the moment... so do you think I should add the axies to cycle the tank?

Opacum · Nov 10, 2010

I wouldn't want to add them personally and I'm glad you don't! Sand doesn't have the surface area to really hold a bacteria bed. I wouldn't really count on the sand to aid in your cycling. The stuff in your Eheim will probably do more to keep the nitrosomonas and nitrobacters happy than anything else. You could cycle with guppies. If they don't make it, then at least you don't lose the axies. But nothing cycles a tank better than living organisms, because the bacteria that you want comes with them and then spreads to your biological media or the substrate.

daremo · Nov 10, 2010

I see... and then guppies can be axie's friends or meals?

I guess I could get a few of them and keep them in the tank with the axies

Opacum · Nov 10, 2010

Exactly! Though you may want to remove them if they are not eaten as they can come down with pathogens as well and affect your axies eventually. But I hope I helped you somewhat. Take pics when you have it all set up. I would love to see it!

daremo · Nov 10, 2010

so is it safe to have them in the tank, then remove them to add the axies (I can put them in a small tank where my little axie lives now) ... they will not contaminate the tank with anything by keeping them while cycling?

Opacum · Nov 10, 2010

I think you are going to be fine there, Daremo. But you may want to get a second opinion there as I've always dealt with more terrestrial forms. Figure the guppies you'll need should be 1" for every 1- 2 gallons of water that you want to cycle. I don't know what pathogens are transmissible from guppies to axies, but I would think that as long as the guppies are healthy by the end of the cycle, you'll be fine. If a guppy dies during cycling, get rid of it immediately and do NOT put a new guppy in it's place mid-cycle because it shall die from the stressful conditions. If you see your guppies with fins clamped after a while that means you are probably cycling. You shall probably lose some during the cycle period. Don't worry! Just make sure you are testing weekly at least for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, and Ph for sure.

daremo · Nov 10, 2010

umm I think I will go get some fish flakes tomorrow, they are cheap and I don't want to put any animal under unnecessary stress or die...

Anyway having guppies seem nice, I can always get some for my small tank when I transfer the axies to the big one, and quarantine them and if they are fine then put them into the axies tank and nature run its course .... but I think I will manage easily with fish flakes if that works as Shannon suggested

I will try that tomorrow and let you know how it goes!

So far my projected super nice tank is looking sadly empty... I'm getting java fern tomorrow too, I want it nicely planted for my axies ...

Thanks for all your advice, I'll keep annoying you with more questions, sorry for that ...

Opacum · Nov 10, 2010

LOL. OK, well I wish you the best with the axolotls however you get the tank to cycle. Your questions are not annoying at all, so don't be sorry. We can't learn if we don't ask. Have a great night! Keep me posted how you are making out with this, please.

daremo · Nov 11, 2010

I added fish flakes but they are small and they sunk... did I do the right thing?? now I am wondering how will I remove them from the sand...

So adding a few fish flakes should be enough to start the cycle?

Opacum · Nov 11, 2010

Well just leave them be for now and start to measure your ammonia... that needs to go up to start your cycle.

daremo · Nov 12, 2010

Ok, I just measured and still 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite...

the fish flakes are over sand and some decorations and in the tank's glasses I can see some brownish things, like dots or algae, very small that I usually see white but they're brown now... I'm not sure why?

Opacum · Nov 12, 2010

The brown stuff is algae forming... that's perfectly fine. It should start to turn green fairly soon if you have enough nutrients in the tank. Just keep watching that ammonia.

daremo · Nov 12, 2010

I just posted my test results of today (in a new thread)

thanks for replying

Question: Does it take longer to cycle a big tank?

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