Question: Cycling tank test results

Hi

Sorry for so many questions... I have tested the new tank's parameters and this is what I got (Using tetra reactive testers)
Added reptomin pellets for a week (since setting up the tank) and yesterday I added fish flakes (they look moldy today, should I remove them or leave them there to rot?)

Ammonia : still 0 mg/l

Nitrites: less than 0.3 mg/l

Nitrates: 12.5 mg/l

PH: 7.5

temp: 19-20 C°

the tank is a 150x40x30 running with a HOB filter and two air pumps, divided by an acrylic with holes (90 / 60), it has a few plants and sand as substrate, and a couple of big river rocks , the ornaments were in already established tanks

Is it normal to get nitrate reading at this point? I never got any ammonia reading...
I also have a few java fern plants to add, is it a good choice to add them now or should I wait until the cycle is complete?

I also noticed that these things are in the tank's glass (I used to have them in the other tanks but they were white and now they look brown, sorry for the quality of the pic... they look like algae or something like that)



thanks for any advice!

tested today:

ammonia 0

nitrites 0

ummm...

That's a tricky one

The brown stuff on the glass is just algae. You can get special magnetic scrubbers for cleaning the glass without putting your arm into the tank but if you don't mind getting wet you can use any gentle pot scrubber that you would use for doing the dishes. Don't use any metallic ones or you will scratch the glass and make sure you use a nice new one that you've rinsed out first.

If the flake is moldy I'd remove it :happy:

As for the readings. After 3 days ammonia should have stated to rise so be be without it at a week is odd to say the least.
There are 3 possibilities I can think of for what's going on.

1st is that the tank has somehow cycled already but unless you are using a filter that has been in use on another cycled tank as well as the ornaments that is pretty unlikely, not impossible just very unlikely

2nd is that your water source contains Nitrate and this is easily discovered by testing the water directly from it's source.

3rd is that the tests are not giving you accurate readings. I believe those are test strips? Strips have about an 80% accuracy meaning there could be ammonia present but it's not enough to trigger a result in the test strips or that the levels of the Nitrate and Nitrite could be off as well.

Sorry I don't have any other suggestions for you and can't be any more help than that but you can feel free to add the other plants now. The cycling process won't affect them at all and they will give the growing bacteria more surface area to cling to

If the tank is empty you can speed up the cycling process by adding a heater and warming the tank to about 25 degrees until it's cycled then remove it and cool the water down for your axies. Nitrafing bacteria grow very slowly and are even slower at lower temps.

the tests are not strips, they are drops tests...

I will test my tap water for nitrates...

it's weird, isn't it? I never get any ammonia...

I remove the fish flakes and then?

Is it worth to go get a couple of guppies and add them to the tank and see if it produces ammonia, then remove the guppies and add axies? will this work?
I think guppies are for warm water, if they die how will I know they die for the ammonia or for low temp?

Ok so the results are as accurate as they are going to get, that's good :happy: and I'm going to assume you carefully read and followed the directions for using them :grin:
I didn't read one of them the first time and didn't know to shake bottle #2 for 30 seconds and the final test for 60 seconds and had to do it again. I read them carefully now

It is extremely odd. If I only looked at your numbers I'd say with 100% certainty that the tank was cycled but it's only been a week

You can add more fresh flake and keep removing it if it get's moldy.
You can also crush the flake up into tiny bits, you should only need a couple of flakes each time.
You can do guppies if you want too, we usually cycle with guppies and find them to work well. You shouldn't need many no more than half a dozen I would guess.
Guppies will do perfectly fin in cold water. I've had guppies breeding in tubs OUTSIDE during the winter and the water get's a bit below 10 degrees so the temp of an axie tank won't bother them at all.

The signs of Ammonia poisoning are pretty obvious.
Cloudy eyes, dark red/purple gills, swimming at the surface gulping air, swimming on their sides or upside down, laying on the bottom of the tank, bloody streaking on the fins and body are most of them :happy: Pretty well in the order that they occur. As long as you catch ammonia poisoning early and get the levels down they will recover but if you test every day you should see a rise before it's a problem anyway.

If you wanted to make sure your ammonia test is working you could add a little household ammonia to some water (1 part ammonia to 4 parts water should do it nicely) and test that. It's not likely that your test isn't working but it would be cool to see that sort of a color change out of it :grin:

Good luck with the Nitrate test. Hopefully it will shed some light on your results. If not I have NO idea what is going on other than a fully cycled one week old tank.

Mere.

umm so is it better if I add guppies or should I keep adding fish flakes??

I guess the guppies could stay in another tank when I remove them to add the axies...

oh! I tested my tap water and it reads 12.5 mg/l of nitrate!! the same as in the new tank...

So what does it mean that my tap water already has nitrates?? is that good, bad, it doesn't matter?

So the cycle hasn't started at all (is that possible?) or what?

When I set up the tank I added the sand and it was very cloudy, after a couple of days I did water changes to remove the cloudiness while I added a few ornaments and plants from used tanks and reptomin pellets.. maybe during those days the ammonia raised and fell?

Yep looks like your cycle hasn't started yet which would make sense and the 1 week mark :happy:
It's a pity there is so much Nitrate in your water already but it does explain a lot :happy:

Anything up to about 40ppm for Nitrate is "safe" for aquatic life but you want to keep it as low as possible. So I wouldn't be too worried about it being 12.5 in your water this may make water changes is a fully cycled and stable tank a little more frequent but I wouldn't expect it to be too much of a problem. Ideally I'd be looking for an alternate water source but bottled water is expensive and let's face it how many of us have access to 2 water sources so we'll have to make the best of what we have

Elevated nitrates are a significant contributor to undesirable algae growth. Nitrate levels as low as 10 ppm will promote algae growth. Algae blooms in newly setup tanks are usually due to elevated nitrate levels. and that would certainly explain all that algae on your glass and unless you use RO or DI water from now on you will probably continue to have algae problems

Although plants utilize nitrates, if nitrates rise faster than the plants can use them, the plants can become overgrown with algae, ultimately leading to their demise.

How to Reduce Nitrates
Unlike ammonia and nitrites, the bacteria that remove nitrates do not like oxygen rich environments. Therefore, conventional filters do not harbor the bacteria that remove nitrates. Although special filters exist that will remove nitrates, such devices are usually expensive compared to other filtration units. However, there are some steps you can take to keep nitrates low.

• Keep the tank clean – Waste ultimately produces nitrates. Cleaner tanks produce fewer nitrates in the first place.
• Don’t overfeed – Overfeeding is a significant contributor to excess nitrates and other undesirable wastes, such as phosphates.
• Water changes – Performing regular water changes with water that has little or no nitrates will lower the overall nitrate level in the tank. RO(reverse-osmosis)/DI(Distilled) water is an excellent choice for keeping nitrate levels low and you should be able to get them at good aquarium stores.
• Keep live plants – Live plants utilize nitrates, and will help keep nitrates in check. The more plants you have the more nitrate the can eliminate.
• Use nitrogen removing filter media – Instead of an expensive denitrator or special filter, use special media in the filter you have. Although they will not lower nitrates dramatically, if used together with other methods the net result will be beneficial.

What it means right NOW
It will mean that your cycling results are going to look a little different to most peoples.
You'll need to ignore your Nitrate test results to start with and focus on the Ammonia. Once you have ammonia reading in your water, and you shouldn't need to do any water changes until you do, you can start to test for Nitrite and do a nitrate test to you know where it's at. It may drop a little with the plants in there, and as the nitrite starts to rise you can begin testing for Nitrate again BUT you will be looking for it to rise above it's usual level for YOUR tank.
Most of us have a baseline reading of 0 for nitrate and we go up from there, your baseline is 12.5 so you will be starting there and looking for a rise. Once it starts to rise you will know your tank is cycled.
With a baseline of 12.5 I would want to keep nitrate to 30 or lower as it will require more of your water to remove the excess than it would for someone who has 0 and you don't really want to be changing out much more than 20% of your volume at a time unless you have to.

Good luck. Your tank should start to cycle soon.
Personally I would add a few guppies which of course you will want to feed but is you don't want to have to re-home them you can continue to just add a little flake every few days, and I do mean a little and just keep testing your water.
As long as you have SOMETHING producing ammonia, be it living or just food, then you'll be fine.

thanks for the help!

Still no ammonia today :'(

I added a few fish flakes, about 4 of them...

Would it help to add a couple of planorbis snails? do they help cycle the tank as fish would do? I have many of those in another tank I keep only for snails and such...

There are those out there that will swear by the fishless cycle claiming it's faster then there are the one who would never consider cycling without fish because they say that's faster it really is up to you and whether you want to be bothered with fish. Flak will do the job the trouble id we need the ammonia before it will all get started which makes the initial start up time so frustrating, even more so if the ammonia is slow in showing it's face.

Personally I am a cycle with fish person I would not however add snails and while planorbis is a fairly broard family group they include what most of us know as ramshorn snails. The problem is they grow to the right size to be swallowed and cause impaction assuming their pointy shells don't perforate the axies insides along the way killing them before the impaction has a chance to. Other problem with them is once you have them you're pretty well stuck with them. I'm yet to find a way to get rid of them and they breed SO FAST!

Yours is by no means a small tank, 180L which is a LOT of water and it will take longer for the ammonia to rise to levels where it is even detectable. 1 ml of ammonia in 10L of water is going to show and infinately higher result than the same 1ml in 180L

If it were my tank I'd go and get 6 or so guppies and cycle with those

Also if your tank has a white or grayish cloudiness, chances are that is a bacterial thing. Try not to change the water when this happens as that is the bacteria you want getting established. That should go away by itself once the balance has been found. You may wake up one morning with a crystal clear tank. The more you change the water to get rid of it, the worse it is going to come back. Let the cycle conclude and you should have no problems with white cloudy water unless something in the future throws off your cycle. And I totally agree with MereB about using guppies to cycle. They can handle cool or warm water and are very hardy. The guppies have the bacteria you want on their bodies and their waste will keep the bacteria fed.

the water is cloudy actually , and I assumed it was for the bacteria

Ok... So I guess my best chance is to get the guppies... Will do...

I'll let you know!!

thanks

I got the guppies, now I have a silly question but with the guppies in there I should do water changes right?

And also, the pet shop got them with warm water, I will put them in cold water, that should be no problem right?

and another question, should I remove the divider of the tank or will it be the same?

Just acclimate the guppies slowly. When you bring them home just float the bag in your tank unopened for 15 minutes. Then open the bag and place some water from your tank into the bag and close it up again for another 15 minutes. Do this two more times and then you should be fine. An hour total acclimatization should be fine. After that time NET the guppies out of the bag and put them in your tank. DO NOT dump the pet store's water into your tank! If you release the guppies into your tank without acclimating them you will shock them and they can catch "Ich" which is a disease you shall have to treat for and that shall hinder your tank from cycling. It only takes a 6 degree difference for fish to catch this disease, so have patience and acclimate them slowly.

auch!!

I just released them after floating them for about 30 mins....

arghhhhhhhhhhh

Is there anything I can do now?

they are swimming all over the place, and I think they're looking for food

How do I know if they get any ich or anything?

Don't panic they will be fine :happy: You'll need to feed them. As much as they can eat within 5 mintes every couple of days will be plenty.
Don't feel too bad I only ever float the bag for about 15-30 mins and then in they go (with the water ) and I don't often lose fish and I don't remember the last case of ich (White spot) we had in our tanks especially with guppies.
You can keep an eye on it though. If your guppies have white spot (ich) you will see small white spots/lumps on their bodies and/or fins and you will see the fish trying to scratch themselves on the sand and other objects in the tank. It's one of the most common aquarium bugs which means there are also HEAPS of treatments out there for it. Treatments that you can use on fish but probably not on axies so IF they develop it you will need to treat it and clean up after it before you add any axolotls.
It's a pain as it's actually a tiny parasite that attached itself to fish and feed and mature then they "pop" and enter the water again at which point the spot disappears making it look like they have gone but left untreated they WILL be back

You can leave the divider in there as long as the water can flow through it from one section to the other it's fine to stay there. My only concern with the divider and the HOB filter is the filter draws and returns water from the same end of the tank and having the divider could seriously hinder the flow of water and the ability of the filter to effectively filter the water from the far end. Really depends on the size of the holes and how many of them there are.

Cloudy is good at this stage just leave it be unless your tests show ammonia is too high.
You will need to test for ammonia with them in there which you are doing anyway and do water changes as your ammonia hits or is a little over 0.25
Up to about 0.5-0.75 is considered "safe" for fish but you'll be changing some water before then anyway so I wouldn't worry about the safe maximum just try and keep it below .5 and they and your cycle will be fine.

excellent!!!

thanks so much for all your help

The guppies seem to be doing just fine, they swim a lot and I gave them a little food

The tank is divided by an acrylic with holes, I think the guppies could actually go through them but they didn't try that yet, so they're all in the "bigger" side of the tank, I guess its the same since the water will go through the holes to the other side right?

the acryllic has about 6 holes for the water to go through, and both sides have air pumps moving water, actually I had to use a lot of sponge for the flow of the HOB filter, I will take a few pictures and upload them tomorrow with better light

You are very welcome :happy:
Personally if it wasn't too much of a pain in the neck to do it I'd take the divider out until it was cycled and put it back in later. If it's going to be a major ordeal than just leave it. Your main problem is the water from the section without the filter getting to the area the filter is in.
They will no doubt figure out they have a whole other part of the tank to explore once they get comfortable with their new home and you'll be able to sit and watch them swim from one end to the other.

OK I'm off to bed, it's almost midnight here in Australia. Enjoy the rest of your day :happy:
Mere.

thanks and have a good night!

I will take it out tonight