Red spots on gills?

For some background I've had issues over the past 2 months cycling my tank and as a result, Roku has lost her gill filaments. I finally have stable tank parameters at:
Ammonia: 0 - 0.25 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
pH: 7 - 7.5
Temp: 60

Her substrate is sand and I'm feeding her with blood worms.

Anyway, I was looking at her gills yesterday after getting home from visiting family for the holidays and I noticed these red spots on the tips of her gills. I almost want to say that they look like damage done by hitting or rubbing up against something, but I'm hesitant to say that because I'm not sure if there's a virus/fungus/bacteria that could result in this.

Since then, I've lowered the temperature of her tank down to about 58 - 56 deg F and cut back a bit on feeding her. When I do feed her, she eats about the same amount and she's just as active as she was before.

My question is if these red spots are anything to worry about. If so, what could I do to help? Should I put her in my fridge for a little while? Should I do a salt bath to prevent an infection if there's a risk of one?

I know that this doesn't really help all that much without a picture. Unfortunately, my camera broke and I won't be able to get a picture of her until either tomorrow or Friday. However, I'm a little worried and I'd like to at least get this posted in case anyone has any ideas.

Thanks!

Hi, it would help to know the axies phenotype (colouration) as if it is albino or leucistic etc... then red spots can be normal as the gills become more or less oxygenated, so if shes doing some swimming suddenly her gills will go far redder than if shes still. However if it is distinct patches then it may be the beginnings of a fungus, when my large female got fungus on her gills the first giveaway was reddenning tips, as though they were being eaten by bacteria, then days later a fluffy fungus began to cover this red spot. I would reccomend trying to get a picture up as well as researching the various different fungus' in order to better understand the issue, if it is indeed such a problem.

I'm a little confused about the cycle being complete. If you still have any ammonia left in your tank and no nitrite/nitrate I would assume your cycle is not complete. Best thing to do in that situation is water changes until it kicks back in. Unless you have another tank, and then you can put a filter pad or some substrate from the cycled tank in the uncycled one to seed the beneficial bacteria.

Yaimfat said:

Hi, it would help to know the axies phenotype (colouration) as if it is albino or leucistic etc... then red spots can be normal as the gills become more or less oxygenated, so if shes doing some swimming suddenly her gills will go far redder than if shes still. However if it is distinct patches then it may be the beginnings of a fungus, when my large female got fungus on her gills the first giveaway was reddenning tips, as though they were being eaten by bacteria, then days later a fluffy fungus began to cover this red spot. I would reccomend trying to get a picture up as well as researching the various different fungus' in order to better understand the issue, if it is indeed such a problem.

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Ok, I'm definitely trying to hunt down a camera (I unfortunately found mine broken in my desk). They are definitely little distinct patches at the tips of her gills. Either way, I'll hopefully get a picture up soon.

carsona246 said:

I'm a little confused about the cycle being complete. If you still have any ammonia left in your tank and no nitrite/nitrate I would assume your cycle is not complete. Best thing to do in that situation is water changes until it kicks back in. Unless you have another tank, and then you can put a filter pad or some substrate from the cycled tank in the uncycled one to seed the beneficial bacteria.

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Ok, then let me be a bit more specific then. The reason why I gave a range is because that's what I've been finding both before and after a water change. I'm a bit crazy, so before I do a water change I test the water to see how much of a change I need to do, followed by testing it again to see what a difference the water change made. Lately (the past week), I've been finding the nitrate and the nitrite at 0 both before and after the water change. However, I've been finding the ammonia to be either 0.25 ppm or 0 ppm before I change her water. It's also not fluctuating as much (i.e. staying at 0 ppm for 2 or 3 days before increasing back to 0.25 ppm). That's why I gave the range. The same applies to the pH.

I'm still doing daily water changes, though I've cut down from 30-20% changes to about 10%. I've also been seeding the tank with Nutrafin Cycle Biological Aquarium Supplement for the past 3 weeks. I've been adding in about 5 mls every time I change at least 20% of the water. I've also been adding Aqueon Ammonia Neutralizer whenever I've changed 20% of her water to neutralize any ammonia and nitrite in the water.

Also, she's a leucistic. yet again, I'll try my best to get a picture of her up here really soon.

Hi there, Anubis.

Since this is a leucistic, the redness could be due to activity. If a leucistic is active, or has just eaten, the gills tend to turn red but fade when at rest.

If only the tips of the gill stalks are red and seem to be shortening/diminishing, this could be an infection, but without a pic, it will be difficult to determine if this is the issue as previously stated.

I'm curious why you are doing daily water changes. Are you using a filter? If so, then daily water changes on a cycled tank should be unnecessary and may be causing undue stress on the axolotl. With a filter, you should only have to do weekly partial changes with fresh, dechlorinated water.

Do you use a dechlorinator? If so, what is the name of it? If not and on town/city water, then there is most likely chlorine or chloramines present in the water. Chlorine will evaporate if the water is allowed to age but chloramines won't. If on well water, there could be some trace metals present that a decent dechlorinator would remove as well.

Be careful with the use of any chemicals as axolotls are sensitive to many. Be careful not to overdose the tank with a dechlorinator or the ammonia remover you use. Really, .25 is not devastating but glad to hear you are so diligent with the testing.

I would advise against the ammonia remover. I'm pretty sure it messes up your cycle, and honestly I just dont trust products like ph up/down or ammonia remover because in my experience they always make for unstable tank parameters. If you are not getting any nitrites or nitrates it means your cycle is not complete. It will be finished when you only have nitrates, and no ammonia or nitrite. I'm not sure about the red gills, but as dragonlady said, my leucisitic's gills will turn redder than usuall at certain times, in fact I noticed a big change when it was placed in colder water. Just keep monitoring the water, and doing water changes when your water gets bad, and it should be cycled eventually.

I'm very sad to say this, but when I got home from work today I found Roku dead in her hide . I honestly don't know what went wrong, though after what I've read on the forum I'm wondering if maybe it was a chemical that I used or the frequency of the water changes. To be more specific, I changed the water whenever the ammonia, nitrite, and/ or nitrate levels were above 0. If they were, then I'd do a 20% water change. I also added the recommended amount to her tank of declorinater, ammonia remover, and bacterial supplement.

I just feel so bad and I really want to know what you guys think might have gone wrong .

Anubis said:

I'm still doing daily water changes, though I've cut down from 30-20% changes to about 10%. I've also been seeding the tank with Nutrafin Cycle Biological Aquarium Supplement for the past 3 weeks. I've been adding in about 5 mls every time I change at least 20% of the water. I've also been adding Aqueon Ammonia Neutralizer whenever I've changed 20% of her water to neutralize any ammonia and nitrite in the water.

.

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Hey,

The reason why your axie lost his gills is utterly clear : The chemical stuff you put in there. NEVER use ANY kind of CHEMICALS in an axolotl tank EVER !
If I were you, I'd make a total water change immediately to take all of this stuff out of the water.
If you keep adding that stuff your axolotl could die.

Barbara

Oh geez. I was so hurried to post that you have to take those chemicals out of the water that I didn't even read until the end. I just saw that your axolotl died.
Well, you now know why.

Chemicals and axolotls do not go together. The stuff kills them.

Sorry for your loss.

Barbara

I'm so sorry for your loss

I too, am so sorry for your loss. Take heart in knowing that you had good intentions, but there is a such thing as too much of a good thing...Should you decide to try this again, the members of this forum will be happy to help you in any way.

As far as using chemicals...To clarify, dechlorinators are fine to use with axolotls. However, adding in an additional ammonia remover should have been unnecessary as some dechlorinators ( for example - Prime) already have an ammonia neutralizer in them. This type of dechlorinator does not remove ammonia, it neutralizes it but allows the cycle to continue normally.

As for the bacteria supplements - personally, I hate the stuff. See, beneficial bacteria needs food and oxygen to thrive...something in rather short supply in a bottle sitting on a shelf in a pet shop. When beneficial bacteria does not have food and oxygen, it becomes aneaerobic bacteria - or ammonia...Some people have had great success using this stuff so this is just my opinion - I'm old school...

SwissAxie said:

Hey,

The reason why your axie lost his gills is utterly clear : The chemical stuff you put in there. NEVER use ANY kind of CHEMICALS in an axolotl tank EVER !
If I were you, I'd make a total water change immediately to take all of this stuff out of the water.
If you keep adding that stuff your axolotl could die.

Barbara

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Actually her gill filaments shrunk down to almost nothing before I added the ammonia and nitrite neutralizer :\. I started adding it in hopes of reducing the issue so her gill filaments can start regrowing. The only thing I was adding before her gills started disappearing was the dechlorinator. What kind of dechlorinator do you use? Perhaps it was that.

dragonlady said:

I too, am so sorry for your loss. Take heart in knowing that you had good intentions, but there is a such thing as too much of a good thing...Should you decide to try this again, the members of this forum will be happy to help you in any way.

As far as using chemicals...To clarify, dechlorinators are fine to use with axolotls. However, adding in an additional ammonia remover should have been unnecessary as some dechlorinators ( for example - Prime) already have an ammonia neutralizer in them. This type of dechlorinator does not remove ammonia, it neutralizes it but allows the cycle to continue normally.

As for the bacteria supplements - personally, I hate the stuff. See, beneficial bacteria needs food and oxygen to thrive...something in rather short supply in a bottle sitting on a shelf in a pet shop. When beneficial bacteria does not have food and oxygen, it becomes aneaerobic bacteria - or ammonia...Some people have had great success using this stuff so this is just my opinion - I'm old school...

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So, overall from what everyone has told me, I just shouldn't add anything (i.e. ammonia neutralizer and bacterial supplement) outside of a dechlorinator? If so, then that was totally my fault :\. I panicked when I saw the tank levels about two months ago and started the water changes and adding neutralizer when I saw her gills shrinking. I'd really like to try this again, so if anyone is willing to bring to my attention anything else that might have gone wrong I'd appreciate that. I don't want a repeat of this.

Hey there. Don't beat yourself up too much. We have all made mistakes as newbie axolotl keepers. Your heart was in the right place and now you will be all the more ready the next time you want to try. Oh, also know that if you are not having at least one heart attack daily as an axolotl keeper, you're not doing something right...

Personally, I'd make sure that your tank has cycled completely before adding anybody new. It sounds like you started seeing signs of a cycle and tried to keep your little guy safe from the possible ill effects of the fluctuating levels.

In case you need a little help with the cycle - maybe this article will help you...Cycling. If you have any further questions, do a search under the "tanks" subforum for cycling and you will be amazed at how much info is out there.

As for a dechlorinator, I like Aquasafe personally. Check your label and see what it handles. There are many different brands that are quite effective. I stay away from ones that contain aloe vera or claim to enhance the slime coat because those can put a coating on everything in a tank - the plants, the rocks, the sides, even the inside of your filter. That's been my experience and a few others out here as well. If your dechlorinator claims to neutralize ammonia, then be aware that you may not get a true reading during your cycle for ammonia.

Make sure you use the drop style test kits too btw...the strip types tend to be inaccurate. If you have a question about your reading, most pet shops will test your water for free...just don't use their recommendations to correct the issue... Make sure your thermometer is accurate too.

Hope this helps, and remember, if ever in doubt, just ask!

Hey,
I'd like to join what was said : everybody makes mistakes.

I think the first rule in aquaristics is patience : your tank is not cycled, you do not put any animal in there. Many many many people do either not have the patience to wait in front of an "empty" tank or just ignore what a cycle is. I have seen this many times in the past few years since I started trying to help people and treat sick axolotls belonging to other people - sometimes my home looks like an axie hospital )

There is another rule : never listen to the sales person in the store. These people want to sell (it's their job !) and often ignore things to an amazing extent. Go to a forum or use your friend google instead. There is lots of info out there and the info you can find on caudata.org compares to a gold mine. Use it !

Good luck !

Alright, cool. I'll definitely look at my dechlorinator again. I might just switch it because I tend to be a bit paranoid.

Now another big question: should I do a 100% water change, rinse everything in the tank, remove the substrate, and rinse my tank completely BEFORE I add another axolotl? I do have one coming soon and I do have two large Tupperware containers (about 8" by 11" and 5" deep) to house them in while I do this (they're about 2" and this would be a very temporary fix). Technically, the tank looks like it's starting to cycle (I did look a bit into tank cycling. You guys were totally right about my tank not being cycled), but it did have a dead axie in there ( ) as well as the chemicals that could have killed and or stressed it out. If I should do the above I'd like to start it asap so I can get my soon to arrive axie in their new home asap.

I'm still quite new when it comes to keeping axies, and I just lost my first one to a fungal infection, despite him living in a cycled tank.

From keeping tropical fish for many years, I have started a tank without cycling it, but it is very hard work to maintain until it stabilizes and I would not recommend it either and there is no grantee that it will work, and I won't say it will either.

I wouldn't completely tear down the tank, maybe remove your substrate though for ease of cleanliness to help control the waste buildup, and keep it bare until it is cycled, maybe a 85% water change, rinse your tank decorations in the water you siphon from the tank too, and when you clean your filter, it must also be rinsed in water taken from the aquarium and never under the tap.

the million dollar question is, how big is your tank, and what type of filter do you use?

more water volume means more stable water chemistry and a bigger volume to dilute wastes in.

monitor water chemistry twice daily if you have the test kits, and if you don't have the kits, get them, and also 30% water changes daily should help with the waste buildup.

iChris said:

I'm still quite new when it comes to keeping axies, and I just lost my first one to a fungal infection, despite him living in a cycled tank.

From keeping tropical fish for many years, I have started a tank without cycling it, but it is very hard work to maintain until it stabilizes and I would not recommend it either and there is no grantee that it will work, and I won't say it will either.

I wouldn't completely tear down the tank, maybe remove your substrate though for ease of cleanliness to help control the waste buildup, and keep it bare until it is cycled, maybe a 85% water change, rinse your tank decorations in the water you siphon from the tank too, and when you clean your filter, it must also be rinsed in water taken from the aquarium and never under the tap.

the million dollar question is, how big is your tank, and what type of filter do you use?

more water volume means more stable water chemistry and a bigger volume to dilute wastes in.

monitor water chemistry twice daily if you have the test kits, and if you don't have the kits, get them, and also 30% water changes daily should help with the waste buildup.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I thought juvenile axies got freaked out if they didn't have a substrate? My tank is glass so I added sand to increase friction. If I'm wrong I'll definitely take out the sand until it's cycled and then add sand.

My tank is a 45 gallon tank but I fill it up to about 35 so my filter can reach. The dimensions are about 2 feet tall, 4 feet long, and about 17" wide. As for the filter it's a Marineland Penguin BIO-Wheel Power Filter 150 for 30 gallons.

And cool, thanks for the help .

Hey,

I would remove the substrate and thoroughly rinse it to remove all the chemicals that might be in there. Then I'd rinse and brush the decos, as well. Then put it back in !

I rinse my filters in tap water (same temperature as the water the filter is working in). I say this because a lot of people insist that the water you rinse your filter in MUST be the water from the aquarium. I was told so, too, in the beginning. I did until I once had forgotten to keep a bucket of water and hadn't rinsed the filter yet. I rinsed it under running tap water and nothing went wrong. I do so every since this happened and I haven't had any loss or sickness since (I keep several species of african cichlids - wild and reproductions of those, as well as axolotls and ambystoma andersoni, some other fish like Ctenopoma acutirostris, Garra rufa, Tetraodon nigriviridis and Typhlonectes natans (which is not a fish)... and a few other less "exotic" others. I've got about 15 tanks, holding almost everything between 10 and almost 200 gallons.
Quite a few of my tanks are running with HMF filters. These filters don't need any maintenance at all.


In your specific case, rinsing the filter in the tank water wouldn't take any of the chemicals out at all.

If I were you, I'd not only rinse the filter but replace the filter mousse. And then start all over again with totally new water and a new filter mousse. And let the tank cycle this time without putting anyone in there.
Your little axies can stay for a few weeks in your boxes given you make a total water change once a day. That will do them absolutely no harm whatsoever.

Oh, and you may fill your tank up to the top. As iChris said : more water means more stability !