Illness/Sickness: Bleeding axolotls

Please help, I was away for a night and my neighbour was feeding my two axolotls. They had just had a water change and were well and I've come home to find blood clots and blood in the tank. Their gills are white tipped and bleeding, both axolotls on both sides.

What should I do?

They have previously been very healthy, no fungal or bacterial problems for the past 8 years.

Please help, am very worried.

I'm moving them into a smaller tank with fresh water but what else can I do?

Any advice would be welcome.

Hi, this is quite unusual and happened to me also, though I over-reacted and caused more problems. Try and find anything in the tank that just seems a bit too sharp, the other option is they were fed and they got aggressive on each other, though mine do this and only once has visible damage occurred (tiny little bruise). Apart from that it's very odd, I hope they survive ok!

This sounds very odd. I think you are right to remove them from their current tank into clean water, place them somewhere cool too. What was the neighbour feeding them and do you know how he fed them ?

Thank you for help.

This isn't them biting each other. It's not the tips that are bleeding but the fimbriae which they are shedding. They have gone from having flowing full gills yesterday morning to little bleeding stumps with few fimbriae left. Their tank had blood clots in it.

My neighbour will often check on them for me when I'm away, she said she has done nothing different this time. They have been fed on pellets and blood worm for past 8 years so I'm also pretty sure it isn't their food. Yesterday she just gave them a small amount of pellet food but apparently they weren't in their 'feeding corner' as normal (they typically come to one corner wait to be fed) and they did not eat any of the pellets she dropped in.

I'm pretty sure its a water contaminate from their water change on Thursday, but don't know what could cause this or how to solve it.

I'm worried that fridging them will be too much of a shock as their gills are so damaged. Please can someone advise me on this?

I've placed them in separate small tubs in completely fresh de-chlorinated tap water that is very cold - my thermometer recently broke so sorry not to be able to give a more accurate description.

Any help welcome.

I think the colder water will hold more oxygen, so should be better for them. They don't necessarily need to go into a fridge, a cooler room or shed may be suitable. Make sure their containers are covered. It does sound like there is a problem with the water. It may be worth looking on the internet as to who supplies your water and see if they have had any problems. Occasionally my tap water really stinks of chlorine for example, I don't tend to do water changes when this happens.
Is there anything else that you have used in their room...air fresheners, scented candles etc ?

Thank you Julia, I've put their tubs in the front porch as this is the coldest place in the house and covered them. Their tank is always covered and I've not used anything new in their room as far as I can think, definitely nothing sprayed and no candles or new cleaning products in their room.

They've been in their tubs an hour or so now and the bleeding seems to have stopped, they are both walking around rather than sitting still, and they look very red, (they are both leucistics so normally only go mildly pink if a bit stressed, but this is rare) although this redness has faded a bit over the past hour. Their gills still look very bad. I cant believe this has happened so quickly.

I'll try contacting Welsh Water in the morning.

Thank you so much for your help,
Esther

It seems unlikely but could it be some sort of virus or bacterial problem?

Hi,
Thanks for response, it could be either I guess but they have no patches of infection or anything visible other than their damaged gills so I'm not sure how to tell. I can't find anything about axolotl viruses that mentions fast gill damage.

They're doing a bit better this morning, I think the temperature in the front porch would have been about 4-5 degrees last night - is there a risk of going too cold? Both are a more normal colour, although one still has his tail curled. No more bleeding and the stumps of gills seem to be a darker colour so hopefully beginning to heal.

I was given three axolotls after I saw them at a tropical fish shop and they had no gills or limbs and bitten tails and stomachs full of gravel. They'd been kept on gravel and fed fish flakes and bitten each other. I complained and the guy gave me them for free as he thought they were already dead. I think they were only a few weeks or months old at this point as they were just over an inch and a half long. I fridged them and they re-grew all gills, limbs and missing tail bits and vomited up their gravel. One sadly died two years ago, aged about 6, he still had two bits of gravel lodged in his stomach which were visible through his skin so was always a bit weaker and slower to recover than the other two. He went from being well, to being floaty and having wispy fungus in his mouth to dying within two days despite fridge, water changes etc. This is partly why I'm reluctant to fridge these two. They didn't catch his fungus and it was very different to what they have now. Is it too much of a shock to a sick axie to drop the temperature like this?

I'm just wondering whether or not they can regenerate their gills a second time? They are about 8 years old.

Also at the moment they are in two tubs about the size of washing up bowls in water about 4 inches deep. This is fairly shallow as I want them to be able to gulp air if they need to without too much effort. Should I do 50% water changes daily?

Thank you so much for this help,
Esther

They should regenerate their gills. They may not come back to their full grandeur, but they will come back to an adequate size.

Keeping them in the fridge (or on the cold porch) is best for them. In their natural habitat, their lake is glacial runoff, so the water is very cold. I've (accidentally) had ice skim over tubs before with no ill effects.

I would do 50% water changes a day in a small tub.

Good luck, Esther!

Thank you, that's really good to know!

One thing to really be mindful of: when doing water changes, make sure the fresh water you're putting into their tub is the same temperature as the water you're taking out. I would keep a bucket of water near their tubs on the porch to ensure this.

Thanks for replies,

I now have a new problem, this morning one has developed what looks like a little tuft of fungus on the end of one of his gill stumps. What should I do?

The colour of both is now normal and they are wandering round their tubs without seeming stressed. Neither has yet eaten anything though, I've read that axies won't eat when kept below 10 degrees, should I move the one without fungus into a slightly warmer room for a day and try and feed him in the eve or continue with the cold porch? How long can they go without food? They are a good size but at the moment I think they last ate on Weds eve so I'm worried it'll be a week without food soon.

Thank you so much for the help,
Esther

That's not unexpected, given the type of injury your axolotls had. I would do mild salt baths to the fungusy one while they're still on the porch. Salt baths are usually done in conjunction with fridging anyway.

Leave them on the porch. The cold is a good place to promote healing. You can try offering foods while they're still in the cold. They may eat. If not, I wouldn't sweat it too much; they can go weeks without food with little ill effect.

Hi,

Urgently need some advice again please.

One axie- Harvey has started bleeding a lot. He had seemed to be improving, he hadn't had any bleeding since last Friday when all this started. I was doing daily 50% water changes and he seemed to be healing nicely. This morning he was in a large pool of blood and is losing more of his already damaged gills.

Axie 2 - Henry is also in a bad way. I have been doing daily salt baths and again doing water changes but the fungus is now affecting all gills on one side and spread to one gill stump on the other side.
What can I do?

The porch is very cold but should I resort to fridging?

I don't want to salt bath Harvey who is bleeding as I imagine this will cause a lot of pain and shock to him.

Nothing has been different in their environment other than the water. I think the water changes must be doing this. Should I buy bottled water to stop this happening?

I also want to phone the water company to find out if their are any new chemicals in the water, but what should I be looking out for?

I'm so worried as its so horrible to see, they're both very sick and I'm not sure what else to do.

Any help welcome,
Thank you,

Esther

Hey,
Did you ever think of testing your water parameters ? I guess that should be the very next thing to do. Nitrites, nitrates, Hardness (GH) at least. Then phone the company and ask if they have changed anything with their water. Like putting water softener for instance !!! That could also have been done in the house your flat is in, so ask the housekeeper if he added something. I would also test for Copper.
Then I would suggest changing ALL the water and not just half of it, and sweep the tup clean with a clean cloth and hot water every day. Bacteria grow on the submerged parts of the tup which will make things worse for your little sick guys.
The I would definitely fridge them and not let them on the porch because the temperature in the fridge is always the same whereas on the porch it isn't.
And then I would very quickly look for a vet that can take a sample of the mucus on the skin next to where your axie bleeds. Usually, axolotls do not bleed like that but stop immediately. If they bleed like that, they have a bad infection and they need to be cared for with antibiotic immediately. If you don't do that quickly, I don't think they will live much longer.
Good luck !

Oh... and does the person that takes care of them WASH HER/HIS HANDS THOUROUGHLY before he feeds the axies, puts his hands in the water or whatever ?
What did he touch before he fed them ? It's either that person who took something into the water or the water you put in the tank.
Some very bad bacterial infection. You need to find out which one and treat it.

Esther, you should be doing twice-daily salt baths on Henry. If it doesn't improve with stronger salt baths, it might be a different type of infection. There are a few that mimic fungus, but are not affected by salt baths.

As for Harvey, try using bottled water. Make sure you use mineral water, rather than distilled water. You can also try using a dechlorinator that has aloe in it. Also, consider tea baths. I think they'd both be good candidates for it, after the fungus has cleared up.

Thank you so much for the replies.

No softener has been added to the water, I'm waiting on a call back from the Water Company about the levels in our area. Will get a water testing kit tomorrow. I didn't touch axie tank without handwashing first and think my neighbour will have done too as she knows this, however I can't really be sure. I think its the water though.

I've been phoning round vet practices to find an exotic vet, there are none in my area but one who is a few hours away is going to phone back and advise.

Both are now in the fridge, in bottled water.

Harvey has stopped bleeding, will switch from Aqua Safe to Stress Coat tomorrow when I change his water as that has aloe vera in, thanks for this.

Henry I bought some 'Myxazin' for this morning so will start him on that later and increase salt baths, hopefully the Myxazin will help if it is bacterial.

Tea baths are new to me, thanks for the link! Will try if they get better, hoping they do.
Thank you again for all the messages, really appreciate it!

I've never tried the tea baths myself, but many people swear by them. I would not do them on Henry until the fungus has cleared up, but I think Harvey is a good candidate now.

Sorry for the slow response. Thank you for advice.

When I came to do the tea bath two nights ago, I realised Harvey had a tiny, tiny white patch on his lowermost gill. It was hard to see what it was so I didn't do the tea bath incase and then next morning he had a full clump of fungus.

I had been scrubbing my hands in between touching either of them and sterilising all tubs with boiling water before I did water changes and using different cloths for each tub to wash before sterilising but somehow he still caught the same fungus.

I'm now doing twice daily salt baths and changing their water once a day using Stress coat and 1.5 as much Aqua Safe to remove the chlorine and chloramines, also keeping the water in the fridge with them too. I've been treating Henry with Myxazin for four days and Harvey for the past two (one drop per litre, they're in 3 litres in their tubs) but it doesn't seem to be helping. I went to the pet shop and they've advised I start them on something called 'Interpet Anti fungus and Fin Rot' at half the dosage stated on the bottle (they phoned someone who kept axolotls for advice). I can't find anything on the internet about whether or not this is safe for them though. Has anyone used it before?

The active ingredient is Phenoxyethanol and its 1ml for 2.5 litres, they recommended I stop the Myxazin and use this instead.

I think their water is now ok: ammonia is 0, no nitrites and nitrates at 10ppm. I got this tested in the shop to be sure as I'd heard the strips are not as accurate. pH was only at 7 though - should I be raising this? The shop advised something called 'pH Up' - but on reading, the advised dose is 2.5ml per 95 litres, so I've realised there is no way I can use it in only 3 litre tubs. Would a drop per tub be too much? Also I know their ideal is 7.4- 7.6 but I've also read anything around 7 is ok.

The vet I phoned was unable to give much advice and the water company didn't give me the hardness levels or calcium levels, they said they haven't added anything new to the water at all recently. The water in this area is very soft. I couldn't find a kit in the shop that would give me hardness or GH levels, they were either pH testing kits or specific kits for ammonia etc. What should I do about this? They have been ok in the tap water here for 8 years and the water company claim it hasn't changed so I still don't know what caused it in the first place and whether it is affecting their fungus now.

Any advice welcome. Harvey has one large fluff on fungus on one gill and Henry now has it on all gills in little tufts. I'm really worried as although it hasn't got worse since yesterday it doesn't seem to have got better either.

Thank you for reading, sorry it got so long!
Esther