Question: Water related question

There is a layer of something on top of the water that is making it hard for Gem to, so to speak, breath. It's causing her to float near the surface most of the time and she often puts her mouth just above the water. Other then that, she swims, eats and seems happy. I don't know what it is, looks almost oily or like a thin layer of dust.

Water temp has been between 16-19c
PH is constantly 7.4
Ammonia is .50
Nitrite is 0
Nitrate is 10

Any suggestions or ideas?

your tank isn't fully cycled. I'm not sure if it's the ammonia, because I'm assuming thats a total ammonia reading and not a NH3 only reading. .5 ppm's of total NH3 + NH4 isn't deadly, but it does harm your axoltol. Ammonia does harm the gills. Axoltols do like to float near the surface sometimes. What's probably happening is your axolotl is just floating around, and you happen to have a film going on in your tank. The film isn't harmful, and you probably just need a little surface agitation to get rid of it. I'd do a water change to get ammonia down. If your test kit only measures NH3, then do a huge water change.

OK, thanx for the advice

Done one large water change. I also managed to take a few pics

Hey babe :happy: LOVE LOVE LOVE your plants, so pretty :happy: pity they aren't real or I'd totally go for them *sigh* oh well

You have 2 issues going on 1st is high ammonia and for what it's worth the reccomendations for ammonia levels in tanks and when they become dangerous is based upon total ammonia readings which is what your test kit will give you so knowing the NH3 to NH4 break down is rather pointles BUT just for those who are interested at a pH of 7 NH3 makes up more than half of the total ammonia present and the percentage rises as the pH does until it is 100% of the total ammonia present so given your tank is 7.4 I'd guess that NH3 is up around the .3 mark give or take.

OK here are the symptoms of ammonia poisoning in order of severity in fish and yes they do transfer to axies
Symptoms:

Fish gasp for breath at the water surface - Sound familiar?
Purple or red gills
Fish is lethargic
Loss of appetite
Fish lays at the bottom of the tank
Red streaking on the fins or body
then ultimately death


so get the levels down with a water change and you'll need to keep it down, your little one is clearly more sensitive to ammonia than some others are.

The film you are seeing is a protein film. You can agitate the surface as Carson said which will keep the protein mixed into the water it is this film when present in high enough concentrations that is responsible for the foam/bubbles you see in rivers and on the shoreline in places where the water is stirred up like when it goes over rapids or from the action of waves lapping the shore.
You can also soak it up with a bit of paper towel. Just lay it onto the surface of the tank over the film and lift it off again fairly quickly you don't want it to sink etc. then just get rid of it. This film wont hurt anything it just looks bad unless you are running a marine tank then you'd need a protein skimmer but I digress.
If you hand feed and put your hand/arm into the tank there will also be some oil from your skin floating on your tank as well which won't be helping with the look of the film.

Hey MereB, where did you get that the NH3 concentration is over half at a ph of 7? I've been a little curious lately about finding out the toxicity levels of ammonium and I havent found much info, but I have been surprised at the small percentage of NH3 present in the total ammonia readings. According to this calculator Ammonia Concentration only .37% of that .5 ammonia reading is actually NH3, giving the actual NH3 level to be about .0019 ppm's.

Some articles I've read, granted it was quite a while ago now, too long ow that I think about it.. eeek I'm getting old and it may be out of date. If I'm wrong then whatever I don't really give a toss. I am not going to have another discussion with you about this area Carson but there are more factors than influence the ionisation rate than just temperature and pH like KH something your calculator fails to take into account so it is at best a rough guide and KH is not something most people even test for. Your calculator also assumes that the equilibrium point has been reached and given the almost constant addition of ammonia it's not terrible likely that it has at any given moment. You might also want to take into consideration that the average home test has quite a reasonable error margin which makes them useless for anything more that a rough guide in a laboratory situation.

You missed the point though Carson. Water change recommendations are made on TOTAL ammonia results so putting out all this info about NH3 to NH4 to someone who is already very new to the whole process and struggling a little with what it all means is FAR from helpful. If you want to learn the ins and outs of it all them by all means do so, the internet has made it so much easier to access all the research that's been done as well as lessons on basic chemistry and biology and everything else you need but it's rarely going to be relevant on a forum like this and will likely just confuse more than it will help.
If you know all about it then fine but stop constantly trotting it out at every opportunity when it is not needed and not helpful it just makes you look like you are trying to look clever. All that knowledge is useless if you lack the wisdom to recognise when to use it.

Here's why it's all done for total ammonia.
So the average, not a chemist of mathematician, aquarium keeper can easily and quickly determine if a water change is required before all their animals suffer.
Everything available for the aquarium keeper is based around the raw test results to make it easier for people and why not when 4 days of exposure to as little as 0.019ppm NH3 at 30 degrees C will kill the average (scaled) fish and the average scaled fish has a much higher tolerance than the average axie or even than non scaled fish..... see pointless and confusing information that has no baring on anything in the original question because seriously they can't make a basic at home test that is THAT sensitive and that NH3 specific.

However over the years through the careful consideration of everything behind total ammonia at various pH's including concentrations and ionisation rates and the average pH and temperature ranges of the home aquarium and general KH values coupled with the observations of aquarium keepers has led to some very basic and very easy guides for how high is too high when it comes to ammonia in tanks.

Now I have no idea of just how much NH4 you need to kill an animal and it is considered pretty well harmless or just how long the exposure would need to be but I do know that unless you have a 100% concentration of NH4 the NH3 present would likely kill the animal long before the NH4 had a chance.

OK now I am done having this conversation with you Carson and will not be drawn into another one at the risk of being severely miss-quoted again.
SO...
Here's something that will keep you bust when you're done with the ammonia research that you will no doubt find interesting although again irrelevant in most circles but who cares, it's interesting right
Why is a low pH no safer than a higher one? What happens to Nitrite as the pH drops? Here's a clue, Nitrous acid.

Now if I sounded condescending in you head when you read all that you may want to check your attitude and try reading it from the point of factually (to the best of my knowledge and observation) based comments from someone who is tired of having this conversation and seeing confusing information posted when it's not needed (and not just by you so chill darling) put forward to try and clear a few things up and to get across that not all information is relevant or even necessary but condescending was not how it was meant to come across but meh whatever you could always give me another negative rep if you don't like it. Whatever I really don't care, my ego's not that fragile but hey have fun with the Nitrite thing :happy:

Mere.

ok, after that, i'm just gonna say (to the original request) -

* Keep changing 20% water until you consistently get 0 ammonia, 'cos based on the paramteres you published i'd say your cycle is incomplete or crashed

* Chuck in an airstone to help with floaty films and dust and stuff

*ducks and runs*

Bren

Look MereB, I'm just asking a simple question, there no need to attack me about this.
For the record I do find the majority of what you say in a "discussion" condescending, and I fail to see where I misquoted you. If I'm incorrect in my info I like to be corrected, but because I assume we're all adults here (right?) I'd like to have it in a civilized manner. Now if you can just take a deep breath and calm down, (or ignore my post, whatever floats your boat I don’t care) I’d like to clarify some of your points.
Relevance of Total Ammonia Nitrogen
I wasn't bringing in the discussion of NH3 and NH4 to seem "clever", it is a relevant point. .5 ppm's of total ammonia is not in the danger zone, however .5 ppm's of NH3 is considered deadly. I was unaware that there was a difference between NH3, and NH4 up until this point, and like to clarify so other people can learn. You may be under a different impression, but I think the point of forums like these is to learn. Just because I disagree with you over subjects does not mean I'm attacking you, and I don't know why you always address my arguments as personal attacks. I was just curious as to where you got the information about the proportion of NH3 to NH4 found in water, as I like to check my facts and your information was flawed to my knowledge. While you are correct, there are other considerations besides ph, and temperature, there are many other charts similar to the conversion calculator that have the same guidelines, so I think it has some decent relevance. Like you said ammonium is not nearly as dangerous as ammonia, so I think it makes a big difference to say over half of the concentration in someone’s tank is NH3, when in reality it is less than 1%. I find this has so much more relevance than you telling me I’ve missed the point of a question. If I was indeed trying to make myself seem “clever” I would probably be talking in a condescending manner, and giving out suggestions to people over information I doubt they know, because everyone should know I’m better than them.
Solution to Problem (Axolotl near surface, floating vs. ammonia poisoning)
I agree that the safest way to address ammonia problems is a water change, however Gem was asking what could be the likely cause of film on her tank, and her axolotl being at the surface. Because I assumed most people would instantly think of the ammonia problem, I addressed it, and explained why I did not think floating near the surface was due to ammonia. According to most websites NH3 is not considered harmful until .02 ppm's. If the total ammonia was .5, I would be less likely to assume that being at the top of the tank is due to ammonia poisoning, and more likely that the axolotl is just floating, because .0019 ppm's of NH3 is not considered super harmful(hence the relevance). If it was .5 ppm's of NH3 then the axolotl would be in considerably more danger.

I find it interesting that you talk about me trotting about information that is "irrelevant" when you yourself talk about so much more irrelevant information, including information to learn up on. I too think it's important to correct incorrect information, such as that 1/2 the concentration in your total ammonia reading is NH3, and I just like to get the facts straight. I don’t think this information is useless, and I have no doubt the common hobbyist can understand this if I can (in fact the average hobbyist is more likely to understand this quicker than me). If you want to give me bad rep’s for “misquoting” you (and by that I mean explaining why I’m referring to certain aspects of a conversation), than by all means go for it.

Dont worry, Gem seems to be fine, thanx for asking guys. Someone should just make a thread where the two of u can argue your points just to each other. As for me, I'm 25 and mentally disabled, so all that stuff that u guys argued about means absolutely nothing to me.

All you had to do was say, there's too much ammonia in the tank and I'd know what to do, but thanks for explaining the film. I have got a little air stone now, which Gem is currently hanging around, so the water should b a bit better from now on. Current water parameters are:

Water temp: 17-19c
PH: 7.5 (as always)
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0

I couldnt quite read exactly what the Nitrate was, but its somewhere between 10 and 20ppm.

Gem still eats, swims around, seems a tad lathargic at times and goes to the surface a bit, but I haven't seen her gulping for air lately. She just swims over to me, wondering if I have any food

Keep the ammonia below 0.25 (probably need daily 20% changes for a few weeks depending on how long you have been set up) and you should be ok.

When you have had 0 ammonia consistently for a week or so you could assume your tank has cycled. Then just check it weekly for a while and change 20% water if the nitrates get to 40

Putting some live plants in will help maintain the ammonia and nitrates

bren

Thank you for the suggestions and advice :happy: At this stage I can't afford to have live plants because they cost money I don't have and they need light and care. I will get live plants when I get a bigger tank in a few months or so

I'm glad to hear Gem is doing better, I was just on my way over to see how she was. Just keep on top of the ammonia and she will be fine. :lol: I'm so glad she's enjoying her air stone mine hate it YAY so happy she acting more normal again.

Don't worry about Carson and I that's what PM is for just ignore the banter.

Checked Gem today and found her swimming around frantically and I think it's because the ammonia is back up to .50 Good news is, she did a poo, so that's probably why Nitrite is 0 and nitrate is 5.0. I changed her water, siphoned up her poo and a few bits, but I think what I really need to do is give her tank a good clean and put some fresh sand in. She's not thrashing about now, which is good :happy:

sorry to hear she's been poorley again but well done on the water change and way to go Gem, glad there's been poop :lol: try saying that in a crowded place.

I'd leave her tank alone. Your tank isn't cycled and pulling everything out and changing it all will more than likely put you back to the beginning of another cycle and you will continue to have problems with ammonia until it's fully cycled. There will be a heap of bacteria growing on your sand, or at least starting to grow there and ripping out the sand will remove all that good bacteria as well. From your pics her tank looks very clean as it is.
Just keep changing 20% of her water each day or more if needed and let the cycle finish and then if you still want to remove the sand I guess go for it but at least let Gem have a short break from the unstable water conditions before you risk putting have her through another cycle. It can't be pleasant for them to be in water that is constantly being changed and that has ammonia constantly going up and down like crazy and Gem seems to be more sensitive than most to it.

Ok, I will monitor and test the tank water everyday from now on to see if the ammonia goes down. thanx once again :happy:

Ammonia: .50
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10

Time for another water change!

Ammonia: .25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10

Tank temp is still around the same, 17-19c and PH is always 7.5, but I still find her sometimes swimming along a side of the tank, against a wall, like she's trying to get out of the tank. The moment I come over to her and she see's me, she calms down. I thought the air stone might be annoying her, so I turned it off for the night, but I still found her in the morning swimming against the wall of the tank.

Any idea's as to whats wrong? and no its not ammonia's fault and the nitrate reading really is a reading of nitrates, just to cover those two excuses