Help ID larval sal

Hello again,

Another weekend of field work has led to finding this little guy in one of the leaf litter traps I put out. I'm at a loss as to what species it is. The head seems very blunt for it to be a Eurycea, but I'm not sure and I'm only just getting my footing in IDing larval stream salamanders. The site is a rather shallow, sandy/pebble bottom stream in a mixed hardwood forest. It's a very hilly place. We've found E. cirrigera and guttolineata there, as well as Desmognathus sp. and Pseudotriton sp. some years before. Any ideas? Please let me know what characters you are basing your suggestion on so I can look for similar traits in the field. I apologize for the poor quality of the pics, I was being swarmed by mosquitoes and the little guy wouldn't stay still for very long.

I will guess from your last post that this was also from S. Miss? How far south?

Your larvae is Pseudotriton, but I am not sure if you are in the range of montanus or if this defaults to ruber. I can't tell you anything specific to key in on as you requested, but the stocky body, large tail fin, size (even though it is small for a larvae of either species, it is still relatively large), net-like pattern and head shape all points to Pseudotriton. Do an image search of Red Salamander larvae and especially look at the younger ones, you'll see the resemblance.

Andy

Andy Avram said:

I will guess from your last post that this was also from S. Miss? How far south?

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Forest County, MS. Range maps have both montanus and ruber as occuring in this county. The MS museum has records for both species in the county. I don't know if this might help distinguish between the species, but the specimen had an immaculately white belly (still fairly transparent, and full of food from the leaf litter trap!). Mitchell and Gibbons' book mentions that larvae of ruber have "whitish" bellies. Any tips at telling larvae of the species apart, or do you go off of region/habitat when specimens are small?

Thanks for the tip on looking for pics of young Pseudotritons. When I initially Googled for images of their larvae, the first handful of pics were of older, larger individuals, with longer, bushier gills. Those types of pics are also what are published in the few salamander books I have.

Regarding that large tail fin, I was wondering if the insertion point of a tail fin could also be used as a clue for this or other species of salamander larvae, as it is for tadpoles? For example, P. ornata have a very deep tail fin that begins almost directly behind their eyes. One of the first things I noticed about this larva was that the tail fin began directly at the base of the tail, and rose rather sharply.

Thanks for the help!

I wish I could help a little more. Where I live in Ohio all we have are Northern Reds so it becomes nearly second nature to ID them from the other local salamanders. My buddy has done some larvae raising of Reds and Muds in southern Ohio (unfortunately, the posts from another site were lost in a crash) but they aren't easy to tell apart, especially when they are still small like that.

As far as tail fins - yes I recall it is used to ID some pond breeding salamander larvae, but I am sure it works in other cases. By and large, there just hasn't been a ton of work done on amphibian larvae IDs and I would be no means consider myself even an expert at it.

Andy

p.s. Not that they occur where you are, but the Spring Salamander larvae can be easily confused for Red/Muds too, but there face structure is different.

I was going to mention Gyrinophilus too. I find their heads to be like this individuals, kind of square.

The easiest difference between Red and Mud salamanders is the pattern on its side.... Can't really tell here.

In any case, red salamanders ten to have spotted markings while mud salamander larvae looks smeared, like the side of a Sterochilus marginatus.

They say eye color works for larvae too, but i dont believe that.

We have Gyrinophilus in the very northeastern most tip of the state (although I don't think any recent surveys have been done).

Also, has anyone observed or heard of Pseudotriton larva burrowing in sandy substrate? The trap I found it it had collected some sand and pretty much buried the leaf litter I had placed in there.

I'm thinking about getting Petranka's Salamanders of the US and Canada book to help me learn to ID larva. Anyone know if it's very good for that?

I guess its said but just wanted to add that my first thoughts for those pics were Gyrinophylus and Pseudotriton...even that way they may turn as other spp but those were the genera i first thought off...
Cheers,

jaster said:

In any case, red salamanders ten to have spotted markings while mud salamander larvae looks smeared, like the side of a Sterochilus marginatus.

They say eye color works for larvae too, but i dont believe that.

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As for its side pattern, it appeared more smeared than spotted. But I think I'll chalk it down as Pseudotriton sp. We knew they were at the site, but I'd never seen one, and it's been a few years since my professor found the other larva.

Petranka's book Salamander's of the United States and Canada is a very useful source of information and does show some pictures of salamander larvae and describes everything from Identification to locations of sub-species,breeding and courtship,aquatic and terrestrial ecology.It also is a good field herper's book.In this book it has a black and white photo of a spring salamander larvae(Gyriophilus p.porphyriticus) that looks identical to your photos,the head shape and the gills look similair to your photos.Then there's the photo of an eastern mud salamander larvae(Pseudotriton.m.montanus) that also resembles your photos but looks more bulky.Either way youv'e got a pretty cool salamander larvae there.I'd get the Petranka's book if your interested in north american salamanders and newts,it is a great book for caudate people.