Dusky Salamander Eye Problem

I have had a dusky salamander for about a month. I have it in wet sphagnum moss in a plastic kritter keeper with ventilated top and a water dish large enough to submerge itself in. The temperature in the house is around 70.

Today I cleaned the terrarium and replaced all the old spaghnum moss.

This animal is never seen. It is always found under the water dish and never on top of the moss. I believe it has been eating crickets because they have disappeared.

Today I removed the salamander to clean and discovered an opaque spot on one of its eyes. Otherwise it looks completely normal and it has a lot of energy.

Other than perhaps keeping an ice pack in there to cool things down more, are there any other suggestions?

First, your setup is all wrong.

Dusky salamanders are stream dwellers with rather large territories. These streams are often quite cold (rarely more than 65F) and highly oxygenated. Sphagnum moss is highly acidic and shouldn't be used as your only substrate. And it should never be 'wet', as this can lead to skin infections.

You really need to change this setup to something much bigger and more semi-aquatic. A critter-keeper isn't big enough for any salamander, in my opinion.

Second, crickets do not make a good staple food. They're poor in calcium, and if you're not gutloading or dusting them, your salamander's not getting appropriate nutrition.

Kaysie, since I have it all wrong, perhaps you could supply some more details - how big a tank? How do I achieve "highly oxygenated water"? What substrata do I use for the land section?

Granted the pet store (this shop specializes in reptiles and amphibians) may have had it all wrong - but I merely duplicated what the conditions were there. They gave me a caresheet recommending crickets and that is what the animal had been eating at the shop.

I am not saying you are wrong, but I am saying there seems to be contradictory information out there.

I am learning and going by what people tell me. There isn't a care sheet for this particular salamander on this site that I can see. Others of the same family perhaps, but not Desmognantus fuscus.

You should be aware that there is a kind of tone that comes through on your posts of "you did it all wrong you should have known" when that isn't the case and I have been here for awhile and have been reading everything I can get my hands on.

They're a stream-dwelling species, so I would definitely try to build something with flowing water, lots of large rocks it can hide under, lots of moss type-things.

Pet shops are just that, shops. They want to sell you things. It's a pretty special shop that actually knows how to care for every animal in their care.

You don't have to believe me, of course. But the housing section on this caresheet is adequate for all Desmognathus.

Devalight said:

Kaysie, since I have it all wrong, perhaps you could supply some more details - how big a tank? How do I achieve "highly oxygenated water"? What substrata do I use for the land section?

Granted the pet store (this shop specializes in reptiles and amphibians) may have had it all wrong - but I merely duplicated what the conditions were there. They gave me a caresheet recommending crickets and that is what the animal had been eating at the shop.

I am not saying you are wrong, but I am saying there seems to be contradictory information out there.

I am learning and going by what people tell me. There isn't a care sheet for this particular salamander on this site that I can see. Others of the same family perhaps, but not Desmognantus fuscus.

You should be aware that there is a kind of tone that comes through on your posts of "you did it all wrong you should have known" when that isn't the case and I have been here for awhile and have been reading everything I can get my hands on.

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Bank on the info Kaysie gave you ;-) Pardon my "French" but she knows her ****!
Best of luck! Get some flat rocks, buy a micro-pump and get some water moving with a water and land area, not that hard to build. As for the tank, I would use a 20G long tank. They are quite a good size and look good!

I am surprised because when I first posted about this salamander, no one insisted that such a set up was really necessary:


http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...t-salamander-help/76793-dusky-salamander.html

One of the respondents said they kept theirs in a plastic tub. A plastic tub is basically what I have. Its about the size of a 10 gallon, but shorter. I have a large water dish in it and I have never seen the animal even go into it.

Francois, have you kept this particular species?

Can you describe how you would build the tank?

Thank you for your response, but this is not good news. I don't know where I am going to find the money right now for another tank and pump. And, it isn't as though I did no research.

What about the clouded eye? If the environment is fixed will this go away?

Looking at the old post you linked there, I notice that Mark said he used a "large semi-aquatic plastic tub". Semi-aquatic means mostly water. And he gave a link to a caresheet that also suggests a stream-type setup. I don't see any recommendations for a fully-terrestrial setup. I expressed concern about the type of moss, and that concern still exists - if it hasn't been tested for pH, it could be creating acidic conditions, and that could cause eye problems.

This site actually has two caresheets for Desmognathus, and care for all Desmogs is very similar. If anything, we've got overkill on care for this genus. I don't intend to sound rude here, but I get rather sensitive when someone says we don't have care information and we've put this much effort into covering this genus.
Caudata Culture Species Entry - Desmognathus monticola
Caudata Culture Species Entry - Desmognathus - Blackbelly and Shovelnose

How large is the tub you have for it? It may not be necessary to get an actual glass tank. But you do need to convert to a setup with water, and some form of aeration. If it were me, I'd just use an air pump and air stone. That may be the only equipment you would need to purchase. I wouldn't use a small internal pump because they generate heat, particularly in a small enclosure.

If you really don't have any rocks outdoors that you can use (boil for safety), the next cheapest thing would be orange clay pots, which they sell in garden shops. Get a hammer, use eye protection, and gently break the pot(s) into pieces. Rinse well and they're good to go.

If the eye problem was caused by the substrate, then changing the setup has a good chance of helping the problem.

Disclaimer: I have not kept any Desmognathus, but I've kept other species with similar housing needs.

I'm going to jump in and say this too: Semi-aquatic doesn't mean aquatic. These guys live in rocky, shallow streams. You need a thin layer of rocks, with lots of big, flat rocks (or clay pots) over it, with aerated water flowing through, or bubbling up. Don't put it in a still-water aquarium type setup; it'd likely drown or asphyxiate.

Devalight said:

Can you describe how you would build the tank?

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Here is a page that shows semi-aquatic and aquatic setups. Note the last pix on this page - it is a setup specific for Dusky sals.

Other semi-aquatic setups can be viewed on this page - keeping in mind the specific needs of the Dusky: Caudata Culture Articles - Setups. Vivarium building projects and 'how to' can also be found on this page.

Devalight said:

I am surprised because when I first posted about this salamander, no one insisted that such a set up was really necessary:


http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...t-salamander-help/76793-dusky-salamander.html

One of the respondents said they kept theirs in a plastic tub. A plastic tub is basically what I have. Its about the size of a 10 gallon, but shorter. I have a large water dish in it and I have never seen the animal even go into it.

Francois, have you kept this particular species?

Can you describe how you would build the tank?

Thank you for your response, but this is not good news. I don't know where I am going to find the money right now for another tank and pump. And, it isn't as though I did no research.

What about the clouded eye? If the environment is fixed will this go away?

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I have a set-up for my N. Kaiseri, similar to what you need, mostly flat rocks piled up on one end and about 2 inch of water with plants, sand, air stone etc... the newt spends its time between rocks above water and usually goes hunting in the water in the evening... seems quite happy and doing great. I will try to take pics.
No, I never kept a dusky salamander, I was ref. to what Kaysie is describing. For the eye I have no idea what to do, I guess the problem will go away on its own with a proper set-up... ???

Regarding the eye condition, may want to look under 'cloudy' eye in this article: Caudata Culture Articles - Illness Part 2

Jennewt, Francois and Jan: Thank you for your very detailed and helpful responses. The idea of the broken clay pots is most appreciated, since this is something very doable. I already have a good sized airstone and air pump I can use so the only thing missing is 20 gal. tank and stand.

I am sorry for coming off as rude, but I did find the information a bit contradictory and I have a habit of speaking my mind online. I see that I was wrong and I am kicking myself as well for not finding all the information here that you have pointed out to me.

I will try to do the best I can for this animal and hopefully the eye won't get any worse or will improve after change of environment.

Devalight said:

Jennewt, Francois and Jan: Thank you for your very detailed and helpful responses. The idea of the broken clay pots is most appreciated, since this is something very doable. I already have a good sized airstone and air pump I can use so the only thing missing is 20 gal. tank and stand.

I am sorry for coming off as rude, but I did find the information a bit contradictory and I have a habit of speaking my mind online. I see that I was wrong and I am kicking myself as well for not finding all the information here that you have pointed out to me.

I will try to do the best I can for this animal and hopefully the eye won't get any worse or will improve after change of environment.

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You are / were not rude, I totally understand the frustration of being given totally different answers on how to care for a caudate depending on the species. You are willing to do things right and as a result you will succeed! I think you have a very interesting salamander. Now, also, let me warn you ;-) Some members on this site do not like to hear about wild caught animals being purchased, and it makes sense because the goal of caudata is to promote the keeping of captive bred animals.

Francois, maybe you could help me with a question. How do you keep a tank clean with only an airstone and a few inches of water and no pump?

Just wondering. I have kept fish for many years and know how gunked up the pumps get in short order.

I plan on purchasing a 20 gallon long and using the Viquarium I purchased sometime ago for my Kweichow newts (who really don't need an aquatic set up as much). The Viquarium is basically a plastic molded waterfall thing with a pump in it. I don't think a deep level of water is required for it to work. I have had it in the box for months.

I really do think the dusky is interesting. They are so fast. They are completely unlike my other salamanders.

Thanks again for your help Francois.

First of all I never do a full clean-up of my aquatic set-up. This only achieves to wipe out all the beneficial bacteria population. I try to make the set-up as natural as possible, close to a window with indirect sunlight (north / east window the best at least in the northern hemisphere), I add many rocks, sand, many plants. I change about 15% of the water every 3 days (you don't need to do it so often though), I keep some slight movement to the water (air stones or small pumps) depending on the species, and at last, I have snails that eat algae if any and left over blood worms. The key is to not overpopulate the tank also, u know that from keeping fish.
Just observe your newts / salamanders every day, are they active? do they eat? are they trying to get out? do they seem "happy", does the set-up smell good or stinks?
NATURAL is my way, I never use chemicals except te dechlorinate water, I never test the water unless I suspect something is wrong, unfortunately when the water is bad, if you don't react REAL fast, you loose your fish, your caudate. Hope this helps a bit.