Illness/Sickness: Floating tail up head down (Sand substrate)

Hi all, first post but unfortunately not for good reasons.

I've had my axolotl for at least seven years with no real issues. He (I think, don't know!) lives on his own in a 60L tank with sand. Fed once a day half a cube of blood worms, but I purchased some black shell shrimp today on the advice of a pet store bloke. I only test for pH since if the other chemicals were a problem I would have seen something wrong years ago...Pet store bloke also agreed on this.

Now I've noticed that over the last few days my axolotl has found it difficult to keep on the bottom of the tank. He has in the past had problems sinking but his floating was always horizontal and not a big deal since he tends to enjoy sitting in his trees.. This time, however, it's different - tail up and head down. I've read on this forum about the tail up head down scenario which apparently means the axolotl is compacted. I haven't seen any waste in a while, so I guess this could be the case. There is no gravel in the tank and I have checked the fake plants to ensure none has been bitten off.

This floating business seems to be random. Last night for example he was almost vertical with his head touching the bottom of the tank. I guided him into his PVC pipe house so that he wasn't at such a horrible angle.. He doesn't appear to be stressed as his gills are facing backwards and his tale is not curved.

All day he has looked fine and was comfortably sitting on the bottom of the tank. Just then, I gave him some of the new black shell shrimp and he has started floating head down tail up again. The pet store bloke said to take him off food for a few days which I would like to confirm with everyone here first since I hate not feeding him as food is all he has to look forward to given that it's just him in the tank.

Any ideas given that he floats vertical for a while then manages to stablise himself on the tank floor?

Thanks

Hi Sifor, welcome to the forum.

Could you post us some pictures of him and his set up please, its very helpful (and we can tell you for sure if he's a he!)

How big is his tank, and have you tested the water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, as well as the temperature? If so, can you share the results with us? If not, you probably should.

So first piece of advice i can give you is to start feeding him earthworms rather than bloodworm. Earthworms are the perfect food, completely nutritionally balanced for axies, and therefore no other food compares! Plus, they wriggle

It does sound like he's a bit constipated. Has he ever had stones smaller than his head in the tank? It could just be he needs a better diet, but if there is a chance he's eaten a rock, more drastic measures may be required!

Thanks for your quick reply mewsie.

I'll post some pictures in the morning. The tank is ~54 litres, 60cm*30cm*30cm. It's winter here in Australia at the moment and the water temp is below 18 degrees. In summer though, I do my best to keep it cool as temperatures frequently go beyond 24 degrees, I know that's very harmful. Frozen bottles do help though.

I have only a pH test kit, so I haven't tested the water for the other compounds. The bloke today at the pet shop said considering he's over seven years old, the levels can't be that toxic.. I'll probably get a master test kit if it continues. In the alternative, I can take a sample of tank water to my pet shop and the bloke said he would test it for me.

I'll have to get some earthworms. I assume the garden variety wouldn't do him any good...

He has never had any stones smaller than his head, in fact the rocks in the tank at the moment are significantly larger.

While I am posting this he is currently acting normal and sitting on the bottom of the tank. I would characterise his tail up floating as random and sporadic. It lasts for maybe a few hours then he's back to normal. Been happening for maybe 3 or 4 days.

Also as I said before, he doesn't seem to be stressed and is still accepting food. Each time I walk past the tank he snaps thinking I am going to feed him.

The only thing in the tank that he may have swallowed is a fake plastic leaf from one of his plants. He has grabbed a leaf during feeding before, however released it very quickly. I checked the plant today and there are no obvious missing leaves and they seem to be secured very well as giving a pull did not result in any breaking off. I guess it can't be ruled out, but I would consider it to be highly unlikely given my inspection of the plant.

I hope I'm not overreacting!

Cheers

Tell us more about this 'black shell shrimp'.. From what you've said, it sounds like all your problems started with feeding your axie this shrimp..?

Aimzs Lotties said:

Tell us more about this 'black shell shrimp'.. From what you've said, it sounds like all your problems started with feeding your axie this shrimp..?

Click to expand...

Actually the pet store recommended to give it a try. He had it for the first time today and ate it with a little tail floating afterwards.. Attached below is an image of the black shell shrimp.



His diet has always been blood worms, with the occasional brine shrimp.

Sifor said:

I hope I'm not overreacting!

Click to expand...

Better to be safe than sorry m'dear!

Providing your garden isn't contaminated in any way - you don't use pesticides and nothing nasty could have got in the soil, then common garden worms will do very nicely! I usually scoop a bit of tank water into a tub and drop the worms in to 'soak' for a few minutes (or until they try escaping) and then dangle them into the tank and the axolotls soon come dashing up to grab their dinner. Happy.

As Aimz says - could be that these shrimp are difficult to digest and causing the constipation, as he's otherwise behaving normally.

Re: water parameters, definitely get a full testing kit, can't tell you what piece of mind it gave me knowing everything is ok! Do you do regular 20%ish water changes and add fresh dechlorinated water?

I have actually been doing 90% water changes every 3-4 weeks... I take it that removes most of the good bacteria, along with the bad..? Sometimes his waste gets broken up and the entire tank becomes filthy requiring most of the water to be drained.. I do dechnorinate the water by way of ager drops.

Just to be thorough, I have a hang on filter which contains wool, carbon and a bio area for bacteria growth.

I just started the shrimp today as the pet store bloke suggested it may actually help him pass waste, so I don't think that is the cause of the problem since his spontaneous floating started a few days ago.

I'll look into getting a full test kit in the coming week.

Thanks everyone for your quick replies.

See how the shrimp goes - but definitely get some worms, and then you can add other stuff in just for variety.

Bait stores should have them, or even your fish seller might be able to order them in for you.

Most of the good bacteria are on the ornaments/substrate/filter, so as long as those things are kept wet you are ok. You shouldn't need to do 90% water changes though - have you been doing that because you were worried?

Usually 20% change every week is sufficient, but when you get your testing kit you can keep an eye on the water parameters and it'll all be more clear what's going on in the tank

Sounds like he'll be fine, but keep an eye out for any other changes in behaviour or the way he looks. If he can stay at the bottom, but it's just his back end floating a bit, thats not too stressful, but if it gets to the stage where he can't keep himself at the bottom of the tank it might be necessary to put him in a shallow container, possibly even in the fridge. Anyway, if this persists after the diet change (WORMS!) give us a shout, I think there's someone on axolotl duty on this site pretty much 24/7, lol!

Been doing the ~90% water change ever since I got him, just something I've always done without thinking.. hmm I'll definately change to ~20% and do it more often.

Time to get some worms tomorrow Also is the length of the earthworms a problem? Like should it be cut up before feeding it to him or just give it whole? Hate to think it'd be too long for him to swallow!

Well my lot can cope with startlingly large worms sometimes!

But generally they are happiest with worms about half their length.

(Any smaller they pester me for more. Any bigger it takes them 10 minutes of wrestling! One of those every couple of days and they have nice round tummies)

Might be worth starting with smaller ones to get him used to it

Smaller water changes more often will help keep the levels more constant and within the healthy range, rather than having peaks of nitrate every 4 weeks, and a sudden change in water conditions for axie

As promised, below are some pictures of him and the tank.

I haven't been to the pet store yet so he had half a cube of blood worms. As you can see, the moment I come near the tank he starts to swim to the top for more...

I'm not sure if the mucus like yellow substance on his body is of concern? I think that formed during a heat wave..

He still hasn't past waste, probably been at least 5 days..his gills are slightly forward but his floating problem seems to have stopped, thank God. Considering I am feeding him once per day (yet to get the worms, so it's half a block of bloodworms or black shell shrimp) at what point should I start to get concerned?

Thanks guys,

he's a big boy! (he is defiantly a male by the looks of it!)

I see waste from my monsters every few days. but there are factors that contribute to how often they pass it (temp, diet, etc). if you see him start to look more "buoyant" in his rear, chances are he's getting ready to go.

axie waste also seems to break down fast, and I would imagine that is what you're seeing when you were doing your large water changes.

Hiya and welcome! My advice to you is: BEWARE OF WHAT PET STORES SAY! Unless they're an axolotl only store (that'd be nice!), I doubt they know much about axi's and how to care for them properly.

I have seen too many pet stores and aquariums where their axi tanks had small pebbles in them, or had too many axi's in the one tank, not enough hiding places, not fed often enough or obvious injury's from them fighting.

As for your axi's tail going up, mine does that from time to time, but its usually not long after that, that she poos. As I like to say (mostly to myself), if all else fails, fridge em

I hope it all goes well :smile:

Now at least nine days without passing waste. My parents forbid me from friding him, so I'm going to try and contact a tropical vet.

Still accepting food, slightly stressed as per somewhat forward facing gills. I don't think it would be wise to do a water change since I don't want to stress him more, or should I?

Cheers

Its such a shame you can't fridge him as it works wonders for constipation. When I had a dodgey fridge I couldn't fridge my axies, so I used to place my axie in its tub onto of a load of frozen iceblocks and keep it in the coolest room of the house (which ironically is the kitchen!). This seemed to work for me and helped my axie pass a motion.

Actually Scooty that's a great idea. I usually use frozen ice bottles in summer but I'll put a few big ones in tonight and use them as a substitute for a fridge.

Yeah if you can prehaps keep his water to near what you would for fridging them, it might just help him pass something? :happy:

Well tonight Willie pooped! I'm not sure if it was because of the cold water or perahps a pressure build up (lol) but in any case everything seems fine.

I must give a very big thank you to all of you who have offered advice. Thanks a million!

Cheers

Thats great! Funnily enough my adult axie pooped last night! Maybe our axies were in sync!