Pet shop owner

I had an interesting situation in the petstore when i picked up my new axolotl today. She has a bitten leg, So I asked how the leg was while it was in the stores care, and he said it hasn't been infected or fungusy. He said to keep an eye on her and didn't really want me buying an injured animal. I managed to convince him by saying i have had sick axolotls before and i know how to take care of them. He sugested a toxic fish medication just in case (i checked it had copper)... so i said.. ugh, because its a salamander and has skin they are sensitive to fish medications. And then he told me in all seriousnes that axolotls were not salamanders, because they do not have lungs, so they aere still fish!!! He said they lacked the hormones to transform, where apparently they just grow lungs when they transform, and then can be called a salamander. Then said the medication was ok. NOT SALAMANDERS... DO NOT HAVE LUNGS that made me so sad. And this wasn't some shop assistant he owned the pet store. I just left angry. Is it not scientificly proven they have lungs and that they are an individual species of salamander?

I also said i salt bathed instead of medication (i did not argue anything he said, i did want to leave with my axolotl) And he said that was highly dangerous and caused them sugnifigant internal damage, and will shorten their lives by 10 years or more! I highly doubt anything he said by this point... but i still felt a little bad, what if it is true at all and i have harmed my baby? I did take care and followed Kasies tutorial closley.

I am glad i took my new pet away from this guy, but still astounded by someone who calls themselves a professional was preaching completley wrong information. He was really getting stuck in. Sorry about the rant... it did make me feel uncomfortable.

I know pet stores keep their axies in poor conditions but has this happened to any one else?

I went back to the dodgy pet store in my area yet again to try to get them to remove their STUPID GRAVEL.. No success.. They kept going on about how they'd had no axies die on them so the gravel can't be that bad.. :O OMG! AND they had a VERY sick looking floater.. i tried to explain how this could be caused by compactation and they were like nahh it'll be right.. I'll give it some medication (I shudder to think what medication they used).. Pitty, was such a gorgeous axie..

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If I were you I would take over some books and multiple sources proving they are indeed amphibians, and yes they do indeed have lungs. They also have 3 chamber hearts instead of 2 which most fish have. What on earth are people thinking? Do most fish have LEGS, I think not! Can't they ever see it go up to the surface and gulp for air? Does he think that gulping for air means he's hungry for the oxygen? I hate when people refuse to learn!

You did not harm your baby giving it a salt bath! It's perfectly fine. GRUMBLE GRUMBLE Honestly who believes a fish can transform into a salamander?!

LOL, the ignorance of some people knows no bounds, 10/10 for trying to educate this guy but i think your fighting a losing battle, no reason for you not to try though.

Aimzs Lotties said:

I went back to the dodgy pet store in my area yet again to try to get them to remove their STUPID GRAVEL.. No success.. They kept going on about how they'd had no axies die on them so the gravel can't be that bad.. :O OMG! AND they had a VERY sick looking floater.. i tried to explain how this could be caused by compactation and they were like nahh it'll be right.. I'll give it some medication (I shudder to think what medication they used).. Pitty, was such a gorgeous axie..

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Was that the aquarium on High st in Belmont? The one down near Clarks, not up the top of the hill?

I had cross words with them before about how axies dont like lights, like hides, will ingest gravel, dont like being poked, and finally, no, floating and not being able to sink is not normal.

Shocking place, i reported them to the RSPCA

Best aquarium in Geelong is Reef & River in East Geelong. When i asked if they had axies, they replied "No, we don't stock them because they are not fish, and therefore this environment is not the best for them. We'll order them in for you from a reputable local breeder, but we dont hold stock because it wouldn't be the best place for the animal. "

Good answer.

Bren

blackdog said:

Was that the aquarium on High st in Belmont? The one down near Clarks, not up the top of the hill?

I had cross words with them before about how axies dont like lights, like hides, will ingest gravel, dont like being poked, and finally, no, floating and not being able to sink is not normal.

Shocking place, i reported them to the RSPCA

Best aquarium in Geelong is Reef & River in East Geelong. When i asked if they had axies, they replied "No, we don't stock them because they are not fish, and therefore this environment is not the best for them. We'll order them in for you from a reputable local breeder, but we dont hold stock because it wouldn't be the best place for the animal. "

Good answer.

Bren

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No it was actually the up top of the hill one! I know they seem so reasonable.. apparently for every animal EXCEPT axies.. Yeah that creepy one near clark rubber is like what the hell?? The only time I go there is if I need a cheap little aquarium (45cm or less) or a fish bowl. They are pretty cheaply priced..

Aimzs Lotties said:

No it was actually the up top of the hill one! I know they seem so reasonable.. apparently for every animal EXCEPT axies.. Yeah that creepy one near clark rubber is like what the hell?? The only time I go there is if I need a cheap little aquarium (45cm or less) or a fish bowl. They are pretty cheaply priced..

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I haven't been to Reef and River. Will do so quite soon I think!

yellowpebble said:

He said to keep an eye on her and didn't really want me buying an injured animal. I managed to convince him by saying i have had sick axolotls before and i know how to take care of them

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While I think it is conscientious of you to want to 'rescue' an injured axolotl, the store owner was right in refusing to sell you the axolotl at all. If anything, you purchasing a sick axolotl from this store only propagates the problem of poor health and husbandry of axolotls at this store.

yellowpebble said:

And then he told me in all seriousnes that axolotls were not salamanders, because they do not have lungs, so they aere still fish!!! He said they lacked the hormones to transform, where apparently they just grow lungs when they transform, and then can be called a salamander. Then said the medication was ok. NOT SALAMANDERS... DO NOT HAVE LUNGS that made me so sad. And this wasn't some shop assistant he owned the pet store. I just left angry. Is it not scientificly proven they have lungs and that they are an individual species of salamander?

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Of course you are right in saying that they are not fish. And if I recall correctly, axolotls being obligate neotene do have rudimentary lungs. However, the lungs are seldom used for respiration. Axolotls rely primarily on branchial respiration which is the absorption of oxygen and desorption of carbon dioxde via the gills. With that said, axolotls also rely on cutaneous respiration whereby oxygen and carbon dioxide are exchanged across the skin surface. Cutaneous respiration is one of the reasons why axolotls have sensitive skin and most medications are avoided.

yellowpebble said:

I also said i salt bathed instead of medication (i did not argue anything he said, i did want to leave with my axolotl) And he said that was highly dangerous and caused them sugnifigant internal damage, and will shorten their lives by 10 years or more! I highly doubt anything he said by this point... but i still felt a little bad, what if it is true at all and i have harmed my baby? I did take care and followed Kasies tutorial closley.

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If you followed Kaysie's tutorial then you shouldn't run into any problems. One of the key points for salt bathing is to only perform one if necessary, i.e. fungal infection. It would be pointless (and cause more harm than anything) to do a salt bath on an axolotl that has fallen ill to a bacterial infection. This is assuming that a secondary fungal infection does not result.

fishcakey said:

If I were you I would take over some books and multiple sources proving they are indeed amphibians, and yes they do indeed have lungs. They also have 3 chamber hearts instead of 2 which most fish have. What on earth are people thinking? Do most fish have LEGS, I think not! Can't they ever see it go up to the surface and gulp for air? Does he think that gulping for air means he's hungry for the oxygen? I hate when people refuse to learn!

You did not harm your baby giving it a salt bath! It's perfectly fine. GRUMBLE GRUMBLE Honestly who believes a fish can transform into a salamander?!

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Yes, axolotls do have a 3 chambered heart. However, the number of chambers in the heart does not govern whether an animal has lungs or not. It is the presence of a pulmonary circulatory system that indicates respiration via the lungs.

The bit that makes me chuckle was when the guy said it would reduce the life by 10 years or more.

Hmm considering an average lotl lives between 12 - 15 years xD

I would have told him that yeah, they are fish, and so are we, just a very particular kind of fish called tetrapods. What amazes me is that he thinks that they magically transform from fish into amphibians when they metamorphose...now that´s one hell of a metamorphosis!

pebble, I invite you to print this thread and show it to this particular aquarist, so he can maybe see how much of a d*ck he has been giving out wrong information.

a good keeper is always has a open mind and is always on the lookout to extend ones knowledge of the species they collect.

Chris, you have no idea how much I would love to do that... however It's a hard thing to do. He is not a good keeper I have utter faith in what everyone sais here, to me experience and care rank much higher than the knowledge that comes for selling animals for a profit. However he IS regarded as an expert, most people go to them for advice and they have been trained to know their stuff (from god knows who). He thinks he is top dog, and it is his job to educate people NOT me, (sadly) and if i printed this off, what would he think? What do some no good chumps on the internet know, i'm a pet store owner!, That’s what i do i know about animals! And he is the sort of character who would do that, he is a d*ck. I am going to avoid this situation, as everyone there knows me fairly well, I am in there almost every day buying bits and pieces for my axies, air stones, test refills, new hides and plants and water conditioners. They have the biggest selection in town, I do not want to get in their bad books. He would know it was me because I am the person that said all the “wrong” stuff about the fish with legs and no lungs L

It is well known around town they have been investigated for animal rights abuse several times which they were fined for AND this guy who runs the place has had sexual harassment changes laid against him by female staff, so do not underestimate his character, yes he is a d*ck. They have a terrible reputation but are virtually the only supplier in town. There is pet barn but it mostly sells stock feed.

If I was to stand up to him with something it would have to be something more reputable than an axolotl chat forum that he might take seriously. I would have to find a good encyclopaedia, some research papers and perhaps some internal photos or x-rays. I would have to make sure it sounded like I was not getting stuck into him and not calling him wrong or a dick, because that is not constructive and he is bound not to take me seriously then. I am considering doing this and just getting my supplies online.

Jay, I was not buying an injured animal to save it from him at all. I bought her because i liked her and wanted that particular axolotl. I would have bought one of the other ones if I wanted them instead. I Agree with you that he should not want to sell an "injured" animals, all though that is interesting, ALL of them i have ever seen there have been injured in some way. Most of them don’t have gills, are floating or obviously have an impaction, and if he knew anything about axolotls at all he wouldn't be selling any of them o_o. I bought my first axolotls from him, when i didn't know all that much about them and thought they were fine too, then to my surprise, with proper care and attention their gills grew back, they put on weight, pood out small stones and started to breed. Actually i don’t think i have ever seen an axolotl in a pet store that should be sold. I know i shouldn't buy from a pet store that sells sick animals, but i have no other option there are no breeders in my area. That and i know i can get their health back up and give them a good life. I definitely don't know about other animals in such detail, but it makes me wonder about all the other species they sell too. It shows its all about making money. And this store is very good at it, they have run every other one out of town

xxianxx said:

LOL, the ignorance of some people knows no bounds, 10/10 for trying to educate this guy but i think your fighting a losing battle, no reason for you not to try though.

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We had someone call our animal hospital in a panic because they didn't know which end the puppies would come out of. People are hilarious.

Sorry about the bad experience, at least you tried to educate. Some people will just believe what the want no matter what. You could always try and send information if you want, but by the sounds of it, he knows it all.

yellowpebble said:

However he IS regarded as an expert, most people go to them for advice and they have been trained to know their stuff

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regarded as a expert? I nearly spat what I was eating out allover my laptop.

yes he is a d*ck . whatever can you mean? lol i am so going to boost your rep!

i just don't understand why pet shops/stores regard Axies similar to fish just the thought that they can swim doesn't make them similar . . . their oblivious to the information and knowledge of such organisms even when you can learn a lot of it in the internet . . . researching is as simple as typing the name of the animal on the search engine of your browser . . . can you believe it as simple as one two three ???

I got my first axie from a LFS, one that I always loved going to, and still do. The owner will stock a few exotic pets from time to time, and I randomly stumbled upon my golden albino there. Looking back though, the axies weren't exactly happy there. They were all pure white when I got mine, and it took quite a while for any color to show. I went back not too long after, and the remaining two were out of their separated breeder and in with the fish... tropical fish. From the looks of it I think it was an accident though, I think the breeder got knocked into the tank when they were cleaning it. Even still, the water conditions definitely weren't ideal, and when I asked the owner about his axies he admitted he didn't know much about them and just ordered them to have something different. Since then I haven't seen any there. I think this was just a case of him having good intentions but not having enough information. Other than this one incident, everything I have ever bought from his store has been happy, healthy and well cared for... so I think it's best he sticks to fish.

One other store I went to in NH really irritated me though. They had some fairly large adult axies in an indoor pond... and were keeping them with koi fish. They looked well fed, but had extremely short gills and looked none to happy about their tank mates. If I remember correctly, there was only one piece of driftwood at the bottom for all of them to hide under. The guy I talked to there seemed pretty fond of them, but again didn't seem to have enough knowledge about their proper care. From my experience, pet stores are definitely not the proper place for axies... or any animals, period, in many cases. I feel bad for the axies, but I'll only buy them from breeders now.