Question: Should i worry about canibalism?

Hello,
i just got my first two axolotls today and i have had the 10 gallon tank running for a little over a week now. i introduced them into the tank and they seemed a little stress from shipping. not moving to much or anything like that. i am wondering if i should get a divider and separate them, or should i see how they do together? the lucy is about 2.5 inches and the gfp wild type is about 3 inches.
i also was wondering when i should first try to feed them? i got them from Jay Sommers (who had a awesome transaction with me) and he provided me some pellets for them. when should i first try to feed them and what other things could i try for them? i have frozen blood worms and i have access to live blackworms. any help would be great! thank you!
andrew

First thing...You will need a much bigger tank. 10 gallons is barely enough for a single animal let alone 2. Give them a while to settle before you feed. Most animals will not eat when adjusting and you will have to clean the wasted food up or risk poor water quality especially in a small tank like that.

I would put up a divider till you get a bigger tank. Without extra space, nipping off legs could more likely happen.

That tank is more than enough space for 2 axolotls that size. Any axolotls housed together under about 6 months old can possibly nip off each other's limbs, but if you keep them well fed and keep an eye on them during feeding time you shouldn't have too many issues with that.

But when they get bigger it wont be enough space...I'm a firm believer is having the proper sized tank from the beginning because it just makes things easier and cheaper in the long run. Better to buy 1 of the biggest of everything you need than to buy THAT AND everything leading up to that.

You could always take them out and feed them in other containers. That's how I would do it if I had babies. Keep them in a larger tank and remove them to feed them. OR if it was blood worms or something else not brine shrimp tiny, I would put it in front of their face.

10gallons perfect for now... I always put babies in size appropriate containters/tanks. I have so many small spare ones I don't worry about buying multiple size tanks. Babies need smaller containers because like Jay said they need to be able to easily find the food you put in the tank. If you're worried about cost, go for some cheap rubbermaid tubs for temporary housing and buy the bigger/nicer tank for when they are bigger.

I feed babies that size live tubifex worms (or whatever other baby size worm culture I have going). It allows me to leave more food in the tank without it fouling the water with decaying waste. So that I know they have food all day. Which is important at that size if you are going to house them together. Axie's will usually not canibalize unless they are hungry, so make sure to keep them well fed.

I have kept larvae/juvies together and seperate. When together I rarely/never have had issues with nipping. It all comes down to food. If it really worries you i'd seperate them though.

Any of those foods would work for them, you may need to chop the black worms up depending on their size. For their first feeding tonight or tomorrow I would use the pellets that Jay sent you, as it's familiar to them.

@ Lizzy
Wouldn't that mean unnecessary moving of the baby's causing extra stress on them being caught moved and then expect them to eat after that?
I don't think moving any aquatic animal unnecessarily is the best thing to do, especially to feed them.
10 gallons should be fine for 2 little axolotls, they do grow fast, but not fast enough to not have time to organise a new tank set up and cycle.

Although it would be better to have set up a bigger tank first sometimes people don't have the luxury of that and its more practical to save and set up as they grow, providing him more time to get ready for them as adults opposed to expecting everyone to have everything set up right away, although it is ideal it isn't always possible.

Recommending more size is always the better thing to do and it would be easier to just set up one tank.. but his 10 gallon will most likely be needed in the long run also considering it could be used as a hospital/quarantine tank or for breeding of feeder fish/cherry shrimp or other uses along those's lines.

yeah i was gonna say, so many people keep their axies in a much smaller tank/container than a 10 gallon. the issue with buying a tank is not a problem because i have TON of tanks laying around and in the attic, from all the reptiles and past tanks i have had. i plan on upgrading to a 20 long i have laying around. i put a tank divider in because i let my anxiety of canibalism get the bast of me i separated them and put the filter right in the middle so they have a little bit of water movement on each side. i also have a hide on each side of the tank. i modified a screen reptile top so i could have a small fan on the top to keep the temp at a constant 65 F. also allows for good airflow, evaporation, and prevents jumping.

what i dont have is a light. i wanted to get a blacklight to see the GFP at night but i know it can hurt and axie if its on too long so it will only be on for a few hours. but i have also heard that a daylight can be bad for their eyes. is this true? the tank just seems very dark and i would love to see them a little more. would i be able to get a light or am i just better off keeping it without a light?

i offered a few blackworms to each of them and they both went right after them... after they taste tested my finger out they ate a little bit of sand in the process of eating the worms but it is the fine playsand. i was very suprised they ate so quickly so they seem to be settling in well.

as for the live tubiflex worms, arent they known for hurting axies if left over in the tank? i may try a guppy or two tomorrow to see how they do with them. if they dont eat them in 10 min or so, i have a hungry lionfish that would love a live treat for once in his life

You are better off without a light because axolotls don't have eyelids and the light can cause stress and pain to them. But if you have enough hiding places for them to hide then they will be okay with a light. People have live plants in their tanks and they need a light to grow that's the only reason a light would be actually needed.
As for the sand in your tank I'm not sure they are big enough to be on sand just yet. You'd have to check with someone else about that. I have 10cm baby's and i still don't keep them on sand just in case they ingest any because I think it could cause blockages like gravel in adults. And the 10 gallons is plenty for now! Also with the divider you cant go wrong that way you know they cant hurt each other and you can insure they get feed equally also.
The only thing I have to say now is make sure they don't have to much water flow of each side as that can cause stress also Good luck!

HappySkittles said:

You could always take them out and feed them in other containers. That's how I would do it if I had babies.

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That's definitely not a good idea....

iSuzie said:

@ Lizzy
Wouldn't that mean unnecessary moving of the baby's causing extra stress on them being caught moved and then expect them to eat after that?

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...and Suzie hit the nail on the head. Axolotls hate being moved around, especially after they eat. The stress of being moved can cause them to regurgitate. It's easier to just keep them in a small, shallow container and do frequent full water changes while they're still in their growth spurt, and even as adults. A shoebox sized Sterlite container works perfectly and most stores sell them for $1-2.

giambi4343 said:

as for the live tubiflex worms, arent they known for hurting axies if left over in the tank? i may try a guppy or two tomorrow to see how they do with them. if they dont eat them in 10 min or so, i have a hungry lionfish that would love a live treat for once in his life

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Aren't blackworms and tubifex basically the same thing? I'd be more worried about a guppy transmitting parasites to the axolotls than a tubifex worm harming it.

do you guys think i should remove the sand? i talked to Jay and he said as long as it is real sand and is extremely fine (which it is), i could get away with it.

giambi4343 said:

as for the live tubiflex worms, arent they known for hurting axies if left over in the tank? i may try a guppy or two tomorrow to see how they do with them. if they dont eat them in 10 min or so, i have a hungry lionfish that would love a live treat for once in his life

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No, tubifex will not harm larvae. I literally leave a ball of them in my larvae tanks at all times and have never had issues.

you DO need to make sure, like with all your live food, (blackworm, tubifex, bloodworm, etc).... that they are parasite free.
I have gotten cultures of tubifex or bloodworms with parasites in the mix and immediately flushed them. I always inspect them first and do a 20 questions on how they are kept and what they are kept in.
Some places will use used tank water from guppy tanks for their cultures and it can really play havoc and make the cultures unsafe.

giambi4343 said:

do you guys think i should remove the sand? i talked to Jay and he said as long as it is real sand and is extremely fine (which it is), i could get away with it.

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I don't keep sand in my larvae or juvie tanks, but if it's fine and not something they won't be able to poop out it is ok.

giambi4343 said:

as for the live tubiflex worms, arent they known for hurting axies if left over in the tank? i may try a guppy or two tomorrow to see how they do with them. if they dont eat them in 10 min or so, i have a hungry lionfish that would love a live treat for once in his life

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I missed this part!
I had an answer and everything.. just forgot to add it lol! Now the tubiflex has already been answered and the about the guppy's have been mentioned but id like to add one more thing, feeder fish and any other live fish/shrimp that you may add in the future needs to be quarantined first for at least a 30 days to make sure they have no nasty hidden diseases or parasites, the idea being that they will die or show signs of not being healthy with in that 30 days.
Its not a good idea to mix species but a lot of people add cherry shrimp to their tanks as a snack or for cleaning purposes for their tank, your axies are most likely not going to eat them at this size but anything smaller than their head is possible food! So always remember when adding anything live to your tank make sure it has been quarantined first. But as for food id stick with the pellets that jay gave you as they are a stable diet. when they get a bit bigger {or even now} small pieces of earthworm can be given to them as they are also the perfect stable diet for an axolotl. One more thing about guppy's, they will nip and bite at your axolotls gill's also and as a food choice they don't have the equivalent to pellets or earthworms so I personally wouldn't bother with them

i have been watching these guys for a while now and i have noticed the lucy does not move very much, while the wild has been very active. i have only seen the lucy eat once while the wild eats every time i put something in the tank (except the pellets). other than the first time i offered food, the lucy has not been seen eating. the lucy is usually hiding behind the slate in the tank while the wild is always out in the open. is this normal for an axie to act like my lucy is? he looks extremely healthy and his gills look very nice and pink and "feathery".
also, how can i get them to eat the pellets? i offered them both pellets. the wild only seems to go after things that move. i can offer pellets to the wild since i have seen him eat alot, but the lucy i just want to get him to eat something.

Some axies are just more active then others. Just keep an eye on the lucy to make sure no stress signs pop up or any fungus or shedding.

if they aren't taking the pellets i'd just go back to black worms.
You have to feed larvae axolotls live food, they will usually only go after moving food sources. When they are older and starting into juvenile phase with all 4 limbs people usually switch them to frozen/thawed or pellets. I keep mine on worm cultures until they are too large for them, then switch to a varied diet of live/thawed/hikari carnivore pellets.

I don't know when Jay does this so it may have been recently for the two babies you got and thats why they aren't readily taking the salmon/trout pellets.

Also keep in mind you just got them, so it will take several days for them to settle in too.

i offered food to both of them today and they both ate great! live blackworms seems to be the favorite of these guys. i get a kick out of watching them eat. very cute little buggers that love to take huge mouth fulls of a cluster of blackworms!

I recently got two axies from Jay also. For the time being they are both in their own dip and pour containers hanging on my 10 gallon that houses my slightly older golden albino. They were eating pretty much from the first moment, but only if the food floated right by their faces. Just this past week I noticed they finally started sniffing out their food. So far it's only been pellets and bloodworms, but they're getting big enough to move on to different foods. My new 55 gallon is cycling as we speak... and to be on the safe side I'm probably going to put a couple dividers in.