Hello, fire salamander female sitting in water now but its November Help!!!!!

Hi to you all. I'm Paul JB's Dad & we could really do with some advice. Our female fire Salamander has started sitting in her water & has passed what looks like an egg case. She had about 12 babies in July & we managed to keep the alive for about 15 days. Then one by one they started to die. We were keeping them in a shallow filled (5cm) amphibian vivarium. With pond plant for airation & water from a garden pond.
We had fed them on green water from a garden pond first. This we followed with Daphnia,blood worms & brine shrimp. We changed some of the water with more green water every few days .
All seemed to be going well but one or two they started to get air bubles within them. Being unable to stay down. like a swim bladder problem.They lived about a day like this & then died. At first it was just the smaller ones but then, the really healthy looking larger ones started to die. I came home from work one day to find 3 dead.JB was devastated but I was more so as I'm Dad & we are supposed to be able to do things. My hopes are that someone can tell me how to avoid this happening again. Plus with it being November we will have fluctuations in day/night temperatures. So as I said in the title Help Please

Thanks PB

Re: Hello from PB JB fire salamander female sitting in water now but its November Help!!!!!

Hi, I will move this to the Help area of the forum. I don't think she could have passed an egg case, there isn't really such a thing for a fire salamander. It is either a poop, or some kind of abnormal poop, or a wad of shed skin perhaps?

There are several things you could try differently if you end up with babies again. A bit more aeration might be helpful. Gas bubbles are sometimes caused by underfeeding. They can often be saved by putting them in super-shallow water with lots of live plants (so they stay upright) and offering plenty of live food. Salamander larvae don't eat green water, but they were probably eating some tiny micro-organisms from the pond. Once they are big enough to eat daphnia, they need tons of it, and may very quickly be able to tackle larger foods like blackworms or chopped worm bits.

AW: Re: Hello from PB JB fire salamander female sitting in water now but its November Help!!!!!

Hello PB JB,

how old is the female? Yesterday, eggs were in the water bowl from one female, which is itself born 2009th. Primiparas often depose from larvae and eggs, larvae may be present also disabled (pic1 was yesterday, pic2-3 was March of this year,also primiparas female).
when the larvae are removed gradually from the "birth tray" I put them into a well-run-pool with many hiding places, water plants, many aquatic snails and asellus (pic4-5). I fed with Daphnia, and Gammerus and a little pellets.
I take a membrane foam filter,
result(pic6 and the "buckets"in "big mama terrestris"), good luck,
ummi

Hi Ummi.
Thanks for the reply. We are not really sure how old she is. We have had her for about 2 years. The egg did look just like those in your photo. This morning there were no eggs or larve. So it may have been a false alarm.
Thanks
Paul

Re: Hello from PB JB fire salamander female sitting in water now but its November Help!!!!!

Hi Jennewt Thanks for your input . Greatly appreciated. If you look at the photo's posted in Ummi's reply,the egg case or whatever it was looked like those. There was nothing new this morning.
Thanks
Paul

Hi
ok this is how to address the problem of ingested air.
The problem is not a water quality one , but a combination of 2 factors, food and water.

The larvae eat a phenomenal amount of food, and they need a contant supply, brine shrimp nauplii is too small, and green algae water is of no benefit to the young directy.
your best bet for a first food are whiteworms, so easy to culture, and containing fat, they are good to get the young going in those first few days.
I then switch to chopped bloodworm, and with a couple of days with a pair of tweezers, they will take the food, then after they get the hang of it it can be placed in the water and they will help themselves, a gentle water flow from a pump is all you need, i change 100% of water daily.

Next the air, its simple!! keep them well fed and most importantly, the water only needs to just cover the sals, if its too deep they cant seem to cope, and the food is more dispursed.
If they get air in them, they get distressed, and as you found out, they die.
If you find they get air in them, put them in a small container, with the water literally just covering them, so they have no option to roll over, them, with some food in with them, they will expel the air.

Hope that covers it!!

Any questions, please pm me.

Good luck,
Ben

Sorry, also forgot to add it not unheard of for salamandra to drop young a few months after initial deposition, although they will be mainly unformed young.

Another reason for going in the water is to simply re hydrate themselves, and also to sometimes soften the skin before they shed it, which you may find as a patch of black 'slime'

Ben

Hi again to you all. Thanks for all of the advice. Well it has happened. A new baby was discovered by JB in the water bowl on Saturday morning.We as you will have read had come to the conclusion that the previous egg appearance was a false alarm. We had stopped checking.
So we have moved the baby into very shallow water in its own small tank with some pond weed & Daphnia for company. Don't want to tempt fate but so far so good. All was good in July at this stage but they were arriving daily My morning routine now consists of creeping in to JB's room with a torch to check on the baby & the water bowl, but so far nothing..So in readiness & anticipation, I have received today, a culture of white worms, in the hope that all goes well.
Ben you stated that there can be young dropped a few months after the initial deposit. But this is 5 months & it appears to be all OK.
I will let you all know how we get on.
Thanks for all the advice
Paul

Good to hear!!!

Baby dead today.

That's too bad, PB.

Much better news . Now have 8 larvae all born in three batches at night over weekend.
Currently in very shallow aerated with pump bottled water with pond weed .Feeding them on white worms which they seem to be managing well. You can see they have white stomachs. JB is very pleased, and had to phone Grandad with the news & has had several friends in for a viewing, but I must admit I think that I am more interested.
Could anyone advise about the water. I'm sure I read somewhere to keep the young in bottled water but may have also seen that it lacks some important minerals. The water here is very hard & lime scale is a constant problem. I have a jar on the bathroom window sill filled with tap water to hope any chemicals evaporate . This is what we do with the water we use in the water dish for the adults. I just want to give these young'uns the best chance of survival
Any advice would be greatly welcomed.
Hope to be posting more positive threads soon
Merry Christmas to all
Paul & JB.

The water here in where i am in Dorset is like liquid concrete, its so hard!!!
Its not a problem, the youngsters need it to grow, i personally used 50/50 tap water and rain water. And i do 100% water change every 2 days.

any questions pm me

Good luck
Ben

Sorry to be a thicky but what does PM you mean?

Pm = private message

If you hover over Sonic's name you'll have the option to send him a message. He tends to be very helpful