WC Salamanders

Is there anyone here who has caught any of their pet salamanders and/or newts from the wild? I'm just wondering if you guys do it, if you think it's okay to do. Also, is it even legal?

It really depends state to state. Most species of reptiles and amphibians are protected by a basic "non-game wildlife" law, protecting species from unlawful harvest. You have to check in with local and state laws in regards to certain species.

Ethically, it's a mixed subject. All of my wild-caught specimens have either been rescued from man-made situations or kept for observation. I do this only when I feel I can give the proper care they need, and rarely intend to keep them for life. 99% of my captive critters are for rearing in efforts of research and conservation. It's a big responsibility in any case. You also have to consider that a wild-caught specimen may have existing conditions that may affect it's health or the health of other animals in your care. Re-releasing them into the wild is a tricky situation, since you can introduce new pathogens into the habitat (note the current research on the chytid fungi that are causing worldwide amphibian deaths. studies show that it was introduced through the unregulated trade in amphibians). Not to mention the curse of invasive species.

It all comes down to doing a lot of research into local and state laws, as well as putting a lot of thought into the ethics of it.

it's an ethical question. Some people are against it, some are for it. Personally, I own a couple WC animals. They were taken legally, so I don't feel bad about it. I see you're in MI if you pick up the fishing rulebook, all the info is in there. You also have to have a valid fishing license which is about $15

Here's the MI Law
DNR - Amphibians and Reptiles

Here's the table

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/FO-224-02_182417_7.pdf

If it's legal to do so then go for it. It's much more rewarding to go out and find your own pets. Plus, you get to pick and choose which specimens you want.

Like any pet though Alexander you have to provide optimal care for it. You need to provide a near enough perfect home for it. Any new animal, whether its wild caught or captive bred will go through a period of readjustment and stress. Before any one considers doing this you need to do lots and lots of research first.

Its better to catch your own than buying them from a online source where they are kept crowded, in unsanitary conditions and under fed.

The first and most important point is of course making sure of the legal status of the animals. Ask the pertinent authorities.
Provided that it is legal and that the population you have access to is healthy with plenty of adults, it´s certainly better to catch your own than to buy them from shops, distributors, etc. However, if you are going to catch animals from the wild, again, provided that it is legal and that the population seems healthy, i would suggest collecting eggs or young larvae/juveniles rather than adults. The adults are survivors, they are the fittest of the population, they are, in other words, very valuable. Removing a small amount of adults from certain populations can potentially have serious impacts (very specially if the population is isolated) whereas removing eggs or youngsters is not going to have such an impact.
I personally don´t agree with taking animals from the wild for our personal amussement, but if it must be done, at least it should envolve inmature individuals rather than the reproducing adults.

Also, before you even consider taking any animals from the wild (provided that you can) make absolutely sure to be very well prepared. Learn as much as you can and set everything up with time. Prepare cultures, etc if necessary. The wild is not a giant free shop where you can get animals anytime you want. Those animals are valuable, if not for you, certainly for the wild ecosystems.


I would like to end by saying that i think it´s always better to acquire captive bred animals of an species that is sutiable to the habilities and experience of the hobbyist. If you are thinking of wild animals because you are impatient, i would strongly suggest making an effort in being patient, nothing good comes from being in a rush. Specially for the poor animals which are always the ones paying the ultimate price.

Well said Rodrigo, you give a good perspective to both sides.

What's better than getting things for free?If you go out herping for caudates it's alot of fun and very cheap compared to the cost and shipping some breeders charge.I don't see how they can charge $30 or more for next day when i've shipped for less than $25 next day.Also i've seen some field herping accounts and wonder do you guys just go out herping to take photos or do you collect any?I find it hard to believe that they don't collect any,i'ts kind of hard not to especially if you've driven a long way.I think if it's legal and you only take a few that are not rare it's ok,but eggs or larvae if you can find them would be better.

warrior said:

What's better than getting things for free?If you go out herping for caudates it's alot of fun and very cheap compared to the cost and shipping some breeders charge.I don't see how they can charge $30 or more for next day when i've shipped for less than $25 next day.Also i've seen some field herping accounts and wonder do you guys just go out herping to take photos or do you collect any?I find it hard to believe that they don't collect any,i'ts kind of hard not to especially if you've driven a long way.I think if it's legal and you only take a few that are not rare it's ok,but eggs or larvae if you can find them would be better.

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I'd like to know where and with who you've shipped that it cost under $25 for next day. Shipping next day across country is $30-40 via USPS, and anywhere from $60-90 with UPS and FedEx.

I think you've all misunderstood me. I wasn't planning on or thinking about taking specimens from the wild for pets. I'd rather buy them from breeders since I'm not very experienced. I think the animals would be better off that way. Maybe sometime in the future I'll take one from the wild when I'm more experienced, but not now. I was just wondering if you guys did this, whether it was an acceptable thing to do, and whether it was legal or not. I was just curious about the subject.

In my opinion, it's okay to do so long as it's legal, and you know what you're doing, and you've done research on the specimens you're taking. I have taken animals from the wild for pets. Three garter snakes and a Dekay's brown snake. One of the garters we gave to a friend, another died, and the brown snake escaped it's tank just a few days ago (still haven't found him; I hope he's okay). We still have the third garter snake. Actually, it's my little brother's snake now. I've also kept crayfish that I found in the wild, and some mice I caught that were in the house.

I feel that getting captive bred species is better for the person and the animal...I learned the hard way by purchasing my FB newts at a pet shop chain, and well I lost a few because they were juveniles, I was inexperienced and uninformed when inquiring about them at the shop, this is how I found this site. I have done relentless research on these little guys, and to know that they are being caught wild at this age and transported across the world probably in horrible conditions, pop in a tank with other species and fish and then taken and popped into another new tank after the pet shop, it broke my heart. Then to think that I wasn't prepared at all and they had to live in unnatural conditions for some months after I got them because of my lack of knowledge...I'm surprised and happy that I still have 3 left. I'm still learning lots everyday from them, they are awesome little critters, but next time I will go with captive bred, they are used to being handle, they deal with water conditions better, and the transportation would be less.
As everyone is saying though, if you have the experience and the ability to care for a wild caught animal, you know all the rules and understand the conservation points in the matter, then all the best to who ever chooses to catch wild ones

For those going on about getting CB.... keep in mind that 99% of the US salamanders ARE NOT bred in captivity.

now I'd be a big hypocrite if I pronounced I was categorically against taking any critters from the wild. Fact is, when I was a kid, back in the late stone age before there were rules about it or anybody gave it much thought, I caught my own pet herps too. Heck, I still have herp books published in the 70ies and 80ies that actually recommend taking newts from the wild and releasing them back into their native ponds in the fall

Nowadays, things are more complicated. There are fewer newts and more rules. Laws must be obeyed, but if it's ok to blow away a grizzly bear just to hang its pelt on your wall, or a 1200 lbs moose to stuff into your freezer when the doc told you that you shouldn't be on red meat anyways, then, if the law allows, it should be ok to take a salamander legally to keep it as a pet, providing it receives adequate care.

What I truly object to is the mass trade in wild-caught animals, most of which die by the time they reach pet shops. I also object to pet shops, which in most cases are run by indifferent, lazy idiots who couldn't care less whether the animals they sell are alive, dying, or dead. If I were king, pet shops would not be allowed to sell pets, only pet supplies.

I second that motion, and I also believe that if anyone is going to a breeder of ANY animal, it should be mandatory that they have a license to breed, raise and sell the animals. Sorry it's a touch off topic, but we take animals for granted way too much!

warrior said:

.I don't see how they can charge $30 or more for next day when i've shipped for less than $25 next day.

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dude, it depends on the distance shipped and the size of the package. I've sent USPS express mails for anywhere from 16 to 70 $.

A box with newts, properly packaged, wouldn't be under 40$ from my location.

Shipping axolotls especially is expensive because water is heavy and axies need a bunch of it for shipping.

tmarmoratus said:

I'd like to know where and with who you've shipped that it cost under $25 for next day. Shipping next day across country is $30-40 via USPS, and anywhere from $60-90 with UPS and FedEx.

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I'm not going to tell you who I've shipped to,the point is I have shipped overnight for less than $25 from my local post office.It may depend on the weight of the package and I've always tried to pack the lightest weight possible.I'm not trying to be mean about it,it's just my experience.I also notice a few places online ship overnight for $20 to $25.