Mice invasion

I have this mice breeding colony, a small thing just to supply my two snakes. Well, at least the plan was for it to be small....however apart from the two original females, this time i left two of their daughters to produce their first litter. They were all very synchronized and three of them gave birth in the past two days, producing 38 FREAKING BABIES! And there´s one more to go that looks like it´s at least going to try to make it 50.
I thought first litters tended to be small..either they are rebels that live by no other rules but their own, or the two older females have produced bloody HUGE litters.
I know, it´s feeder mice, it´s one step from bragging about a succesful fruitfly culture, but they are so many that the levels of cuteness go beyond the visible spectrum into the ultracute.

Omgooses! Look at all them pinkies! So cute.

I could never have a snake because is cry at each feeding. I love the tiny rodents lol.

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It's a tough thing if you think your feeders are ultra-cute. I think I'll stick with worms, no problem with cuteness there.

I personally find things cute that 99% of other people would consider quite 'uncute', such as spiders, baby earthworms, even leeches and sometimes even parasitic critters. However, I don't find cuteness to be an immunity from the food chain.

However, I do consider 'live food' to be deserving of the same humane treatment as the animals I feed them to. I do my best to make sure my feeder insects/bugs have the best conditions. Happy food is good food.

I've fed vertebrate live foods to animals, from fish and amphibians to mammals and birds. I don't enjoy seeing an animal suffer, but at the same time I am keenly interested in how the process occurs. Some people interpret my watching the event as if it's some sort of morbid enjoyment, but I don't consider it that way. The enjoyment is only on a level of watching nature doing what nature does and learning about it, not enjoying the suffering and death of another creature. Those 'live foods' also deserve the same respect and humane treatment as their eventual predators, and if I can minimize their suffering during the time they are eaten I will do so. I try to use killed foods as much as possible, but some animals just won't take anything that isn't alive and even conscious.

I like to remind people that nature is not capable of cruelty. We only interpret the harshness of nature as cruelty, but there's no maliciousness there. The animals that are the 'victims' probably don't consider it cruelty, whether or not they are capable of feeling such emotions.

My mother, on the other hand, avoids seeing animals suffering as much as possible. Whether it's a nature program on TV or a hawk hunting finches in our yard, she dislikes it all. We come into conflict quite a lot about it. She chases off would-be predators at any opportunity. We have an artificial nest platform for Common Loons in our bay, and she is a passionate defender of the pair, as am I. But when it comes to Bald Eagles bothering or predating upon the Loons and their chicks, we have sharp disagreements. She chases the eagles off at any chance, screaming and flailing her arms. I disagree with this, arguing that not only the eagles have the right to eat, but that the loons can take care of themselves and that we don't have a right to interfere. As much as I care for our pair of loons, I also care for everything else that calls the area it's home.

I say that life becomes life, flesh and bone become flesh and bone. The death of one creature becomes the life of another, and it's all just passed along endlessly. Almost like a form of reincarnation. Suffering in nature is a fact of life, but when it comes to suffering caused by our actions, it is different. Our actions are unnatural, and the suffering we cause to animals is unnecessary.

Azhael said:

I have this mice breeding colony, a small thing just to supply my two snakes. Well, at least the plan was for it to be small....however apart from the two original females, this time i left two of their daughters to produce their first litter. They were all very synchronized and three of them gave birth in the past two days, producing 38 FREAKING BABIES! And there´s one more to go that looks like it´s at least going to try to make it 50.
I thought first litters tended to be small..either they are rebels that live by no other rules but their own, or the two older females have produced bloody HUGE litters.
I know, it´s feeder mice, it´s one step from bragging about a succesful fruitfly culture, but they are so many that the levels of cuteness go beyond the visible spectrum into the ultracute.

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Looks like it is time to cull the herd down a little. The nice thing about having large batches of pinks is that you can humanely dispatch them and freeze the bodies for when you have shortages. If you practice a little, you can even sex the pinks right after they are born and cull one sex or the other.

I tend to stay away from rearing rodents as the odor is more than a little annoying to me. I find it much easier to get my rodents prefrozen and store them in thier designated freezer (yes I have my own rodent freezer I also have my own live food fridge ever since the blackworms organized a mass escape in the regular fridge).

Ed

you're either gonna have two very fat snakes, or you need more snakes.

Ed said:

Looks like it is time to cull the herd down a little. The nice thing about having large batches of pinks is that you can humanely dispatch them and freeze the bodies for when you have shortages.

Ed

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What's the best way to euthanize pinkies for freezing? Is hypothermia by itself humane?

Ed, buying frozen feeder mice would be ideal but unfortunately it´s just not economically possible for me most of the time. I´d very much prefer not to breed mice myself, but it´s what works best right now.
I don´t have any real use for the pinkies so i´ll have to wait until they are weaned, but yeah, i can´t house that many mice....O_O Next time i´ll make sure to only get two litters.

I try to be as detached as i can while still enjoying the mice themselves. I have a very similar position to yours, nwmnnaturalist, i get no pleasure from the death of any animal, but i can enjoy and be fascinated by the behaviour of the predator, which is perfectly natural. I fully agree that the mice being meant for food is no excuse to sacrifice their quality of life. They should be offered as optimal care as possible and spared any pain or suffering when it´s an option. I´m not against feeding live prey, because it´s the natural way, and it doesn´t magically become wrong in captivity. It may become undesirable, but not wrong. Therefore i´m largely ok with it but i avoid it as much as i´m allowed.

I normally find it rather easy to be detached because i realize that the feeling of wrongness and cruelty is entirely subjective, but still, it´s there and it´s certainly not pleasant. Then again the snakes have to eat and brocoli won´t do it.
My limit is with rats, though. Can´t do it. I´ll feed rats and sacrifice rats if i have to, but i will never raise them for that purpose again. I´m not particularly proud of how irrational that is, but i like them too much


Argh..Molch...how could you do that to me? How could you say "you need more snakes"? Stab me a few dozen times, why don´t you?

Jennewt said:

What's the best way to euthanize pinkies for freezing? Is hypothermia by itself humane?

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hypothermia isn't considered humane for them either.. there are a couple of routes to take, they are easily and safely euthanized through the use of CO2 (some alka seltzer in one container connected via a tube to the container holding the pinkies) before freezing.

Alternately, if you have someone to show you they can be quickly euthanized through cardiac compression (preventing blood from traveling to and from the brain) as this rapidly results in loss of consciousness and death.

Regardless of the method used, make sure to dry the pinkies before placing them in a bag (or lay them out singly on a non-stick surface (parchment paper works well) and place the surface into the freezer. Once frozen, they can be placed into a bag for frozen storage without the worry that they will all stick together into a mass from which they have to be pried.

Ed

Azhael said:

. They should be offered as optimal care as possible and spared any pain or suffering when it´s an option. I´m not against feeding live prey, because it´s the natural way, and it doesn´t magically become wrong in captivity. It may become undesirable, but not wrong. Therefore i´m largely ok with it but i avoid it as much as i´m allowed.

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One of the benefits from freezing the prey species is that you can have the specific size that you need for the animal(s).

Azhael said:

My limit is with rats, though. Can´t do it. I´ll feed rats and sacrifice rats if i have to, but i will never raise them for that purpose again. I´m not particularly proud of how irrational that is, but i like them too much

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Have you considered Mastomys natalensis? They are common over here and produce large litters and don't tend to be as friendly as domestic rats which allows them to be readily used as a feeder. They also don't have to odor that live mice and rats have... (also the pinks are about 1.5 times larger than domestic mouse pinks at birth).

Ed

Yeah you need more snakes. Get a nice pair of White Northern Pine snakes.