New Axie Owner Could Use Any Advice!

Bevi1019 · Nov 30, 2011

I'd like to start off by saying this forum has been an excellent source of information as I have been researching what I will need to create the ideal environment for Axolotls. That being said there are just so many things to consider for someone just starting out. So I am going to try to outline my current plans for a tank setup and hopefully some experienced keepers can point me in the right direction from there. Any and all information, advice, recommendations, and criticism is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

I am planning on getting a tank that holds approx. 40-55 gallons which i know is more than enough for 2 Axies(which is what I will be getting) and should be large enough should I decide to add on. I've read that they don't require much water depth, but I want an aesthetically pleasing setup, are there any reasons I shouldn't fill the tank completely?

I know that gravel or any substrate small enough to fit in the Axies mouths are no good, I plan to go with sand rather than rocks/bare tank, but I have read pros and cons to each. any advice on the subject in general would be great.

I definitely want to keep live plants in the tank, just seems like a nice touch, but I know that adds some requirements such as light which the Axies don't care for. Would like some floating and some planted any recommendations on what works well under the tank conditions and that they seem to like would be nice.

My biggest concerns since I've never had any tank setup before are filtration and chilling the tank. If anyone has recommendations on a particular product that works well for a 40-55gal tank please let me know. There are so many types of filters I have no idea what to buy lol. As far as the chillers go I see that many are quite pricey so if anyone has found one that's a bit cheaper but still affective. Over the winter there should be no problem keeping the tank cool but come summer I know I will need it.

Also if anyone could me a "cycling for dummies" rundown that would be a huge help I start reading about nitrates and nitrites and I flashback to chemistry class and go cross-eyed. On a related note I have read conflicting information regarding water changes some saying the tap water should be chemically dechlorinated some saying it's fine as is.

I know as a general rule of thumb its best not to keep anything else with the Axies, but I have seen setups where people seem to have created a harmonious environment with other tank mates. The most interesting I have seen was keeping some ghost shrimp, as Axolotls are known messy eaters I figured a few ghost shrimp would work as live in maids. I also like the idea of having some fish kicking around but would only consider ones that are no threat to the Axies, less concerned about them getting eaten. But again any information from someone with experience in the matter would be great.

I apologize for how long that ended up being but I wanted to be thorough. Once again any and all help is greatly appreciated, including tips on anything I may not have mentioned. I'm eager to get started but want to make sure I can sustain a tank before bringing in the new pets. Thank you for your time.

Eastling352 · Nov 30, 2011

I am by no means an expert. This is my first time having an aquarium and i actually got my axies today after almost 1 and a half months of cycling. But what i can do is give you some pointers that people gave me.

This is also a good page about housing an axolotl.

Sand, use sand. Gravel sucks and can cause death, but i think you already knew that. Rocks larger than their head are very hard to clean since junk gets stuck beneath the rocks. And there are opinions on using a bare tank saying that it could cause stress to Axolotls since they can't get a good grip. Personally i'm using sand so i would advice you too use it. It looks great too.

Lighting is important with live plants. I'd say you should try to get dark plants, they usually don't need that much light. Also the lightbulb i think is supposed to be around 6500K, it says what it is on the base of the bulb.

Probably one of the best filtrations you can have is an external canister filter, though they can be a bit expensive but considering how large the tank is gonna be, a canister filter may be your best choice. Fluval is a very good manufacturer and often recommended. I'm using a Fluval U3 innerfilter and i love it. So i'd say you should get the Fluval 205, if you can.
Chilling a tank is a problem. Chillers are extremely expensive but there are a few steps you could take to reduce the temperature:
*Don't use a lid. Go with an open tank since a lid will keep the warmth in.
*Place it away from a window and out of direct sunlight and as low in the house as possible.
*If the tank gets a temperature spike or just needs help cooling for a while you can use the ice bottle technique. There are guides on this site explaining it better than i could.
*Get a fan, computer fan or desk fan, doesn't really matter as long as you can get the fan to blow across the surface. This may lower the temperature by 1-2 degrees.

Cycling is important. It's quite hard to explain and i may miss a few points, but here goes: Cycling is the process of building up bacteria that can handle the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite the axolotls produce by pooing. So to get it started add a source of ammonia, i used fish food but you can use other things too. Let someone else explain it further.

Edit: Also, hides are necessary for them to escape the light or just for "protection". A general rule is two per axie but more wouldn't hurt.

Read this about tankmates. I would advice you to not use a tankmate other than a similarly sized axolotl since fish may damage their gills and can cause sickness to your axolotl if eaten. Also here's a link about injuries that have happened with tank mates.

natjobe · Nov 30, 2011

Hello!
Well I am still fairly new at axolotls but I also have 4 other fish tanks so I can only help on a few things.

Cycling a tank means that you are allowing good bacteria to set up a bio filter, meaning that the bio filter will help deal with nitrates and ammonia. When you have a cycled tank your nitrate, nitrite and ammonia should all be at zero.. this is a healthy tank!

Your tank filter also help remove those harmful bacteria, but with axolotls they do not like any current so your typical over the back waterfall filter is not fantastic. In saying that I have that kind of filter on my tank but I have used a nice piece of wood and a cut piece of a foam filter to disperse the flow so the water is calm. I use the wood for height and as a dispersant, but the water hitting the wood is loud so I cut a small piece of filter foam to dampen the sound. You can't hear a thing thank goodness, or it would drive my husband and I crazy! lol. But there are other options just depends on what you can figure out that works best for you and your axies!

As for substrate seems as there is quite a debate out there on what is best. It seems the top 2 are bare bottom or sand. I started out with river rock which I quickly realized was much to hard to keep a clean tank. All the poop and lost food end up between the cracks far down, even siphoning it was hard because the rocks would just get stuck in the siphon. So within about 2 week I switched to sand, so far seems much nicer and much easier to keep clean. I use a turkey baster to clean up poop daily (only takes a moment) and I use it to remove and pellets that they don't eat. I also feed small earth worms which are ideal for axolotls and they eat the worm so quick there is never anything to clean up after! And of coarse sand is so much prettier. Love my tank now, so glad i switched. It also doesn't seem as to a straight answer about whether or not them eating to much sand is bad, but lots of people have sand in their tanks and it definitely is not the same problems as when gravel is in the diet.

If you want plants find low light plants, anubius nana and java moss are good ones. I just ordered some new plants and getting them tomorrow. I'm sure others and your own research can help you out! And I am also going to try some amano shrimp and some guppies tomorrow in tank with the axolotls. I am going to quarantine the guppies in a separate small tank for about 60 days and make sure they have no diseases, feeder guppies are often not taken care of very well when stores receive them from their supplier and the tend to have lots of health issues and you do not want to pass this to axolotls.

Good luck! Hope I helped, still tons to learn for the both of us!
Nat

Carl · Nov 30, 2011

Martins advice looks pretty sound the only thing I would add is that if you choose not to have a lid to reduce the tanks temperature then the water level should be well, well below the lip of the tank as Axolotl's have been known to go for expeditions over the side of their tanks which usually results in a dead dried up fluff covered axi...

I'm currently in the middle of cycling my tank with pure Ammonia which is working out great

"Add and Wait" Method

This is the method I have used to cycle 5 tanks (from 2.5 to 75 gallon) and it has worked perfectly. I think it is the simplest and requires the least amount of work. First add your ammonia to raise the level to 4 to 5 ppm (see ammonia calculator here at bottom of page). Now you simply wait on the ammonia to drop back to around 1 ppm. Spend the time researching the fish you like and see if they are compatible with each other, with your tap pH, tank size, etc.

Test daily to see what the ammonia reading is. There is no use to test for anything else. Nitrite and nitrate won't be present until some ammonia has processed. Ammonia will raise your pH so no use to test it either. Once you see a drop in the ammonia, test for nitrite. There should be some present. When the ammonia drops back to about near zero (usually takes about a week), add enough to raise it back to about 3 to 4 ppm and begin testing the nitrite daily.

Every time the ammonia drops back to zero, raise it back up to 3 to 4 ppm and continue to check nitrites. The nitrite reading will go off the chart. NOTE FOR API TEST KIT USERS: When you add the drops, if they immediately turn purple in the bottom of the tube, your nitrites are off the chart high. You do not need to shake the tube and wait 5 minutes. If you do, the color will turn green as the nitrites are so high that there isn't a color to measure them with. Once the ammonia is dropping from around 4 ppm back to zero in 12 hours or less you have sufficient bacteria to handle the ammonia your fish load produces. Continue to add ammonia daily as you must feed the bacteria that have formed or they will begin to die off.

The nitrite spike will generally take about twice as long to drop to zero as did the ammonia spike. The reason for this is two-fold. First, the nitrite processing bacteria just develop slower than those that process ammonia. Second, you are adding more nitrite daily (every time you add ammonia, it is transformed into nitrite raising the level a little more) as opposed to the ammonia, which you only add once at the start and then waited on it to drop to zero. During this time, you should occasionally test for nitrate too. The presence of nitrate means that nitrite is being processed, completing the nitrogen cycle. The nitrate level will also go off the chart but you will take care of that with a large water change later. It will seem like forever before the nitrite finally falls back to zero but eventually, almost overnight, it will drop and you can celebrate. You are almost there. Once the bacteria are able to process 4 or 5 ppm of ammonia back to zero ammonia and nitrite in about 10 to 12 hours. You are officially cycled. You can continue this for a few days just to make sure it isn't a one time thing and of course, you need to continue to add ammonia up until the day before you get your fish.

At this point, your tank will probably look terrible with brown algae everywhere and probably cloudy water. As I mentioned, the nitrate reading will also be off the chart. Nitrates can only be removed with water changes. Do a large water change, 75 to 90 percent, turn the heat down to the level the fish you have decided on will need, and you are ready to add your fish. You can safely add your full fish load as your tank will have enough bacteria built up to handle any waste they can produce.

Source: Fishless Cycling - Tropical Fish Forums

danchristopher · Nov 30, 2011

Hi Bevi and welcome,

As far as I'm aware there are no reasons you shouldn't fill the tank up completely other than that there have been some accidents in the past where axolotls have flipped out - they occasionally get stunned (lights turning on, fast movement towards the tank) and go flying around the tank bashing into things - and actually launched themselves out of their tanks onto the ground. This can especially be an issue if you don't have a lid on your tank. I have about a 15cm gap from the water level to the top of my tank which seems to have worked for me so far and have never had an axie escape attempt.

I also recommend sand, the only issue you might have is if one of your axolotls turns out to be a "sand eater" and just eats the sand for the sake of it. Though this seems to be pretty rare.

I keep live plants, but I also have lots of hides for my axolotls. I also keep plants that are generally known to not need much light (java moss growing on wood looks nice, java fern also needs very little light). There is a good list of plants here: Axolotl Sanctuary
I turn the light on in the late afternoon/evenings and it doubles as a lamp to light up my living room and so it's on for a few hours, my axies don't seem to mind and have grown used to it so they just go into a hide and will sit there with their heads poking out.

Chilling can be a problem, but the methods mentioned above are probably your best bet if you can't afford a chiller. I believe some people also fridge their axolotls over the summer months, but this seems less than ideal.
As for cycling, it's a pretty simple thing to understand once you get your head around it. I like the image on this Caudata page and I think the page explains the process quite well: Caudata Culture Articles - Cycling

I keep a tank of breeding cherry shrimp (which are awesome!) and throw a couple in my axie tank every now and again. They are good cleaners but also occasionally end up as food. As far as I'm aware there are no real risks associated with cherry shrimp cause they can't do much harm to anything. As for other species, it's most often not a good idea. Most fish will end up as food unless your axolotls are seriously lazy (although, a lot are...I guess) and can introduce disease and other nastiness.
Have a look at this page for examples: Caudata Culture Articles - Species Mixing Disasters

Hope this helps in any way!

natjobe · Nov 30, 2011

.... just adding to the post, You can buy a bacteria source called "cycle" from your local pet store. Just follow the instructions. It will put the bacteria in for you. Oh and also back to the sand and plants, if you use sand then you can plant easily, verses large river rock that will crush plant just trying to put it in or bare tank with planter pots in the tank. On housing, I went to my local granite counter-top store and they have "cut" pile that is just cutoffs from counters they do and they just give it away. I used the granite to build little houses. Make SURE the granite is only polished not sealded with anything, the sealants are usually toxic!
.....Ok I'm done now........ lol

Carl · Nov 30, 2011

natjobe said:
I am also going to try some amano shrimp and some guppies tomorrow in tank with the axolotls. I am going to quarantine the guppies in a separate small tank for about 60 days and make sure they have no diseases, feeder guppies are often not taken care of very well when stores receive them from their supplier and the tend to have lots of health issues and you do not want to pass this to axolotls.

Good luck! Hope I helped, still tons to learn for the both of us!
Nat

Obviously your using them as an occasional food source

but as the OP is new I thought I'd clarify that mixing Axolotl with anything other than similar sized Axi's is a very bad idea usually what can happen is fish will nibble the gills of the axi or the axi will just eat the other fish also large snails can cause impaction problems just like gravel:uhoh:

so 1 or 2 feeder fish such as Guppies or Mollies should be fine or even some Cherry shrimp but other then that it's a big no no really:happy:

natjobe said:
.... just adding to the post, You can buy a bacteria source called "cycle" from your local pet store. Just follow the instructions.

This is a waste of money IMHO how can you expect bacteria to survive in a tub which sits on a shop shelf for 6 months? your better off using used gravel from an already cycled tank or a used filter sponge (make sure the tank they come form is healthy!) and if you can't get that (like me...) then don't worry as it will still start to cycle fine but it might take a little longer, mine took about a week and a half before I saw a drop in Ammonia (with no old tank stuff)

natjobe · Nov 30, 2011

I agree with Carl, it is a better way to cycle your tank with already bacteria grown items, was just giving you a way to do it with out since you said this was your first tank. Not sure about the bacteria on a shelf thing being bad, as long as you refrigerate it after its open it should be okay. Its like buying yeast from the grocery store. Yeast is a bacteria that sits on a dry shelf for months as well but once its open you must refrigerate. And definitely no snails or any thing else then the 2 that Carl and I said, which included pleco's they are spiny and can definitely be bad for your axie!

Urmat · Dec 1, 2011

I would try a sponge filter, they are easy to set up and cost effective. They also create very little current. As for plants you could attach some anubias to driftwood which looks pretty nice and they dont require a lot of light.

Bevi1019 · Dec 1, 2011

Thank you all for the advice, and some greatly links. I was looking into the sponge filters for the low current/low cost aspects, but wasn't sure if it would be enough by itself, such a simple design but apparently people use them with a lot of success. I figure if i go this route I will get one able to handle a larger tank and get a pump with adjustable settings.

Eastling352 · Dec 1, 2011

Sponge filters are, from what i've read, the best filters you can get for that price. Though i would advise to get a few of them, maybe two or three, since it's quite a large tank.

Maybe some mechanical filtering too if you don't want to remove every piece of dirt by hand.

Bevi1019 · Dec 1, 2011

Could you recommend a mechanical filter? i found a highly rated sponge filter for up to 80 gall tank i was going to grab a couple, and I'm leaning towards a high end tetra whisper air pump.

Also back on the cycling topic when i start the process do I want to have everything in the tank? Sand, plants, hides, filter, etc.?

Eastling352 · Dec 1, 2011

I don't know any mechanical filters that are good supplements to sponge filters, i have never used them either so i have no experience with them. So i'll leave that to someone else if they can explain.

But the cycling process, i would advise that you add as much as you can when starting it. Like sand, plants and hides so they can be a part of the cycling process and get some bacteria built up in them. No need to add everything at once, just start with the sand, some plants and then maybe some hides if you want to and have them. Also turn on the filter. This is important, since the filter is where a lot of the bacteria builds up in. It also cleans waste from the sand, plants and other stuff you get when starting an aquarium up. Also, clean the sand under hot water (Only Water) before putting it in as it's usually really dirty.

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