Newbie with low water hardness (GH ~30ppm) - will this be a problem?

Our water here appears to be soft as a baby's bottom - GH is around 30ppm, KH is around 40ppm - and I'm concerned this may be too soft. Do I need to address this?

I've recently set up a 20 gallon tank with river rock substrate, terracotta feeding saucer, fake log hide, a few plastic plants and sponge filter. Doctor Who (leucistic axolotl, ~7 inches long, no idea how old but apparently not yet sexually mature) is helping to cycle the tank.

• pH is 6.75 - 7.0
• ammonia just started moving (0.5ppm) before my 20% water change today
• nitrates at 0
• nitrites at 0
• temp between 15 and 18 celsius depending on time of day.

Thanks!

Axolotl.org - Water Hardness

You have basically the same water hardness that i do (around 3 on the hardness scale), i don't think it's gonna be a problem to have that soft water. But if you want to be on the safe side, read through that link and add a salt solution to your tank.

I actually just learned why my axies gills are turning pale but i also learned that it's not dangerous.

I am not coherent in my writing right now as i'm tired as ****. But i hope you are somewhat more knowledgered(?).

Eastling352 said:

Axolotl.org - Water Hardness

You have basically the same water hardness that i do (around 3 on the hardness scale), i don't think it's gonna be a problem to have that soft water. But if you want to be on the safe side, read through that link and add a salt solution to your tank.

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Thanks, I'd seen that; I just can't seem to find anything conclusive as to a) whether my axolotl will be happier/healthier with a higher GH, or b) how exactly to use Holtfreter's/Steinberg's/modified solution to increase hardness (in terms of x amount of solution per gallon will increase hardness by y amount - if that can even be calculated).

Eastling352 said:

I actually just learned why my axies gills are turning pale but i also learned that it's not dangerous.

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My axolotl's gills are also rather pale when he's just chilling out, and I'm also assuming that's why; I did read that it isn't dangerous, but I just want to know if it'll make his/her quality of life better if I increase it.

I have soft water, and I've been adding a water-hardener "Equilibrium" ( Equilibrium Aquarium GH and Mineral Balance 300 Gram Aquarium Supplies - GregRobert Pet Supplies ). If this is a terrible idea, hopefully someone will tell me, but it seems to be having the desired effect.

Typically speaking, water hardness isn't something that usually comes up as a concern. It mostly addresses the buffering capacity and osmoregulatory system of the aquatic creature.

From what I have read I haven't seen any specific numbers for water hardness of Lake Xochimilco and I have only seen vague references to "they like hard water." Which is fine, but would be more helpful if it actually specified a scale since what I consider hard might not be what others consider hard. Generally speaking half of that tanks I own are pretty off the charts on KH and GH. I somehow doubt the axolotls would like that lol.

Anyways, all that aside. If you are set on adjusting the hardness for your animals, take a moment to research the differences between KH and GH so you are educated about what parameters you want to affect since there are differences between them. Also keep in mind that if you adjust your water parameters that constancy is much more important than trying to hit target values. Aquatic animals can typically adjust to their surroundings quite easily as long as they are constant. However, fluctuating parameters cause far more stress on the animal.

Chirple said:

I have soft water, and I've been adding a water-hardener "Equilibrium" ( Equilibrium Aquarium GH and Mineral Balance 300 Gram Aquarium Supplies - GregRobert Pet Supplies ). If this is a terrible idea, hopefully someone will tell me, but it seems to be having the desired effect.

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I finally found this stuff yesterday; it looks reasonable, but I am still deciding if I even need to do it. Thanks for pointing it out!

Kribby said:

Typically speaking, water hardness isn't something that usually comes up as a concern. It mostly addresses the buffering capacity and osmoregulatory system of the aquatic creature.

From what I have read I haven't seen any specific numbers for water hardness of Lake Xochimilco and I have only seen vague references to "they like hard water." Which is fine, but would be more helpful if it actually specified a scale since what I consider hard might not be what others consider hard. Generally speaking half of that tanks I own are pretty off the charts on KH and GH. I somehow doubt the axolotls would like that lol.

Anyways, all that aside. If you are set on adjusting the hardness for your animals, take a moment to research the differences between KH and GH so you are educated about what parameters you want to affect since there are differences between them. Also keep in mind that if you adjust your water parameters that constancy is much more important than trying to hit target values. Aquatic animals can typically adjust to their surroundings quite easily as long as they are constant. However, fluctuating parameters cause far more stress on the animal.

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I'm in the same boat: I'd like more data before I make a decision.

Based on these posts by Michael Shrom from 2006, 2008 and 2010 - though not fact-rich posts, I do see him thinking about it in '06, having done it by '08 and still doing it in '10, so it must have been working for him for 3+ years or so - I decided to pick up some Instant Ocean Sea Salt to increase GH and get some trace minerals in the water since, as I've mentioned, my city's GH and KH are < 1 degree (~17 and ~15 ppm, respectively).

I did a little testing using 1/8 teaspoon of Instant Ocean and 2 litres of water. This raised the GH by 95 ppm (+/- 10); based on this, I expected 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons to raise the GH by 120 ppm, bringing me up to about 7.5 degrees of hardness.

Since the Doctor is in the fridge and not in the tank, I plopped a whole tablespoon in the tank two days ago. Yesterday, the GH was at 90 (5 degrees), and the KH had come up to 45 (2.5 degrees), though this may be more as a result of the plants I added, since when the plants went in, the pH moved from 6.8 to 7.2.

On a more awesome note, my tank has finally begun to cycle - nitrites have made it from 0 to 0.25 ppm. While this may just be a function of time - it's been going for 3 weeks now - I'm going to credit the increased hardness, as my research has shown that soft water may not cycle at all.

PH and hardness are NOT the same thing. Water that is not buffered can have a pH of pretty much anything! But buffered water will be more resistant to pH changes. Something as simple as adding an airstone to an unbuffered system can cause the pH to drop significantly, without stressing anything out. But changes in hardness are felt immediately, and possibly to the detriment of the system's inhabitants.

My water is extremely soft.Amazon soft. I have to buffer my water just to keep plants alive. So I'll need to buffer my water for the axolotl, My question goes to someone who actually understands that pH is not the same as hardness, and can recommend a good parameter for carbonate hardness. How hard is too hard? Does anyone keep axolotls in soft water with no problem?

knifegill said:

PH and h

My water is extremely soft.Amazon soft. I have to buffer my water just to keep plants alive. So I'll need to buffer my water for the axolotl, My question goes to someone who actually understands that pH is not the same as hardness, and can recommend a good parameter for carbonate hardness. How hard is too hard? Does anyone keep axolotls in soft water with no problem?

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I think its a shame that we haven't been able to answer this question...

I removed all the salt in the Doctor's water (via dilution on water changes) awhile ago, and s/he's doing just fine. Grown at least an inch since March.

I know this thread is old but I too need some clarification on water hardness. My treated tap water comes in at around 60ppm for general hardness. I know axolotls are adaptable to a range of parameters when it comes to ph and hardness, but what is really the ideal GH? Everything I have read suggests that they prefer "somewhat hard" water. Water bodies in central and south america generally have soft water though due to low solubility of minerals surrounding them. I don't know if lake xochimilco being a high altitude lake, would really be any different than the generalization. Newts and Salamanders by Frank Indiviglio, Published June 1st 1997 by Barron's Educational Series - states that "they do best in soft water with a ph of 6.9-7.6". So therein lies my confusion! Everyone seems to think hard water is the better choice, did I miss the paradigm shift? To be safe, avoid extremes on either side this much I know. What say you guys?

I am by no means an expert in axolotls, although I do keep them. What I have learned is that the alpine lakes in their natural range are alkaline and have a variable ph of 7-12 and gh of 6-16deg (106-284ppm), currently this isnt the case due to pollution caused by sewage and/or agricultural run off and depletion of glacial run off. I personally have found little reliable information on kH.

That being said, in order to have a ph of 8 or greater in a natural setting usually requires a large source amount of a calcium and or phosphate compound. Not always, but the vast majority of naturally occurring alkaline aquatic environments are alkaline due to calcium compound base rock. This base rock is typically areas that were once ancient ocean sea floor pushed above sea levels by plate tectonics. Sorry for the natural history babbling but I personally like to work from simple natural environment/ecological data and thought others may as well.

As far as gh versus kh, gh is the measurement of microscopic dissolved solid particles these may or may not effect ph or buffering capacity. KH is the measurement or carbonates in the water. These are your commonly occurring minerals that are responsible for buffering capacity or their ability to maintain and/or raise ph. In all aquatic envirenments, especially closed systems like home aquariums, ph naturally drops over time primarily due to decomposition of plants, animals or waste products. That is why buffering and buffering capacity is important, to prevent ph from continually dropping and bottoming out.

Freshwater aquarium salt (the sodium chloride variety) is a water soluble solid and will increase gh but not help bufering. Marine aquarium salt is primarily sodium chloride but also contains a long list of minerals and trace elements. Among these minerals is calcium and other buffers to achieve a ph 8.2+ and kh of 8-12deg(142-213ppm), this is essential for marine life. That may seem like ideal parameters for axolotls but the high salinity (salt) is not when starting with very soft water. The presence of sodium in alpine lakes is trace to none so I'd be concerned about increasing salinity that much. It will destroy most vascular plants, (plants in general hate sodium based salts), and makes me wonder what, if any, havoc that reeks on the poor soft bodied salamanders. I personally do use sodium salt in my amphib water but at trace amounts, (about 1 teaspoon per 40-50 gallons), and I use only freshwater salt products. Theyre commonly sold for goldfish and live bearing fish supplementation in pet stores and are ususally packaged in a paper milk carton.

In a nutshell for soft water I'd personally use a buffer to increase my ph to the desired level and treat with salt at the teaspoon/50 gallons then check my gh. The kh buffer and salt will increase the gh. If the gh is too low for your personal taste I'd use a non sodium gh increasing product. There are many gh replacement products for use with R.O./soft water but you will most likely not need this with the buffer/salt treatment.

Sorry again for babbling but the devils in the details in my experience. If this is confusing or unclear just ask and I'll simplify or further explain. I apologize to any chemistry gurus for inconsistencies but I'm trying to keep it simple as possible to help understanding.

Good luck and enjoy!

Thank you for your 2 cents snototter, and no apologies necessary for the natural history babbling for I too can relate to it. I have used API's freshwater aquarium salt to raise the hardness slightly (about half a tablespoon to 20g) -and am mindful of the chlorides and their effect on amphibian health. My KH in tank sits at 53.7ppm and GH at 89.5ppm after adding the salt. I plan to use Equilibrium in trace amounts to increase the GH from 60ppm (direct from tap) to around 150ppm over the course of many water changes, in the place of aq salt. This is partly because the aquarium will be fully planted in the near future, and I think the GH can be raised without worrying about excessive sodium in the column. I don't feel too concerned with the KH levels as it appears to have the ability to buffer the water quite well, I have never seen a drop in ph below 6.8 (7.2 stable) even after admittedly going longer between partial water changes. Equilibrium also totes that it will adjust GH without impact to ph, so I would assume the KH levels would remain in check. My axies seem healthy and hungry but lately I am noticing my GFP's gills are not looking as bushy as they once did, not being a sudden change either. I checked all of my water parameters and the only culprit could be a spike in nitrates (40ppm). Temp and filter flow are where they have always been. Nitrates are back down to 20 and I am keeping a close eye on gill health now.

Sounds like a plan. I also use equilibrium to temper gh in my R.O. water for my planted tanks, seachem makes pretty good products. For my axolotls i use aged straight tap water. Our tap water has a ph of 8.5-9.0 and gh of about 10deg(180ish/ppm) so it works well for them. Would be perfect if not for the high phosphates. Nitrates I personally rarely check because of my plant load. 20ppm isnt anything to worry about in my opinion. All natural bodies of water usually have 10-70ppm of nitrate. I've done alot of water sampling, across the states anyway, and other than spring fed, fast moving mountain streams nitrates is a constant part of the natural nitrogen cycle and important for plant health. As long as it isnt super high (80ppm+) long term and combined with other poor water quality factors it shouldnt be a problem. Even though their natural environment ph is 7.0 or higher, having it slightly acidic has the advantage of reducing the toxicity of ammonia and nitrites should you have a spike as well as being less appealing to most nuisance algae.

Have a good one!

I agree, I am a huge fan of SeaChem products. Prime is indispensable, I used Stability to get me going and run Matrix in my canister filter.

My nitrates usually test at 20ppm, which I know is preferable. I meant my nitrates had spiked to 40ppm. This was probably because I missed a few water changes and had removed a few large plants from the setup. This was the only thing I could think of that would cause her waning gill filaments.

You are pretty lucky to have those water parameters straight from tap, save for the phosphates of course as you say. Is there anything you do to rectify/remove the phosphates? I have no experience in dealing with this parameter, and have never so much as tested for it. Probably worth a look for tanks prone to algae growth I'd imagine.