New friends, new setup...

Hi Y'all, I see there's a few posts from oz at the moment, stressed Axoltl's due to spikes in the weather etc.
I decided to do some renovations to the 'house'. We got about a 50l tank.
I'd taken water samples only for Ammonia, the guy at the aquarium, (who breeds Axies).
Wasn't sure about the whole Ammonia Nitrate Nitrite cycle, and he reccommended just the ammonia test kit.
There was no real result 2 weeks ago, but it's been hot here while I bean away at work...
I took a sample to the aquarium, it tested high for Nitrites and Ph.
I talked with them for a while, and took on board their suggestions.
I bought a new undergravel filter, some plants, and some sand.
I siphoned out all the water and rinsed the stones and gravel out. I wiped out the tank with a clean cloth, and replaced the water, about 4 buckets or 40l of it, through a filter.
I topped up the water, and started refrigerating a few 1l beer jugs of conditioned water.
I laid the stones out frirst, then the fine gravel, and floated it, so the finer stones came to the surface, burying any stones which were exposed.
I bought the water down to about 23C, and started adding ice cubes daily, refilling the ice trays from the tank water.
Went away for a couple of days, came back and found Hercules dead
I've tested the water and it's fine, I guess the changes were just too much for Him. The other one (Camo) She's fine. But Herc was off his food, I usually gave them guppies which they snapped up before they could get close.
As camo is only new, I'm not sure of her hunting skills, she's pretty aggressive, but the guppies are still swimming...
So I bought some silica sand and covered the gravel and stones completely, planted out some new plants, put in a new filter, and an air stone.
I wanted a new friend for camo the camoflague, but came home with a smaller male and female, i think camo is a female, but as I'm not sure we've now got 3.
I can always give one away...
Hopefully this set up will keep them all alive now.
I'm going to replace 20% of the water every few weeks.
I don't believe in keeping them in a sanitised environment, I replaced the original water and the gravel, to continue the cycle.
I've still got a snail which is bigger than the axo's heads, and I've got some very small guppies in the tank with them.
Need these new ones to learn some hunting skills, or maybe it's just too warm and they gone off their food?,
I'd prefer them to learn hunting skills, it's better for their morale and individuality, they are animals after all, they need to hunt. This is also better than them 'bottom feeding'.
The Guppies help out with the house work, cleaning up debris on the floor!
I'm breeding guppies, and have introduced a new 'friend' (2 actually) to keep them on their toes...
Yabbies, or Crawdaddies. Fresh water crayfish. They clean up all the debris on the bottom of the tank, and any complacent Guppies!
No way are the Yabbies in with the axoltls!!! separate tanks!
Check out the pics of the new buddies, Jack and Jill.:happy:

Not sure if I am correct there but I think your gravel may be too small. Could cause problems... maybe stick to having just sand on the bottom or bare bottom tank. Makes it a lot easier to clean and they won't be able to eat any of it!
Also I think 23 degrees is still a bit too high, is it still this temperature? Try to get it under the 20 mark.

Attractive animals and good luck.

Please consider Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity

Particularly, you will likely need water changes more than "every few weeks." Get a full water test kit, and maintain a regular schedule for doing changes. Ideally, pH should be between 7.0-8.0, hardness around 120ppm, 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, nitrate less than 60.

Gravel + axoltols = bad idea
This can lead to gravel being eaten, which can lead to impacting. There are a number of alternatives, including river-rock, slate, silica sand, and bare bottomed.

23c is definitely high. Try to lower it using either a chiller or by bringing the whole room temperature down. Using ice can lead to dangerous temperature fluctuations so be very careful.

As to tank companions: if you have a stressed animal, adding another animal only aggravates the issue. In particular, the crayfish, being a scavenger, could cause serious harm to you axolotls while they sleep. Personally speaking, I don't house anything else with axolotls.

Hope that helps.

The high temps in aus during summer can really stress axies out

I generally move my axolotls to a cooler part of the house during summer, but that only helps to a certain point. I would continue freezing bottles and adding them to the tank to keep the temp down. Theres also the option of buying a aquarium cooling fan.

I've heard people take the fans out of fridges/freezers and use them, but I'm not entirely sure how.

Watch out for gravel/rocks/pebbles. It's probably best to avoid them. Some sands can also come with small rocks, so be careful

vagus said:

Attractive animals and good luck.

Please consider Axolotls - Requirements & Water Conditions in Captivity

Particularly, you will likely need water changes more than "every few weeks." Get a full water test kit, and maintain a regular schedule for doing changes. Ideally, pH should be between 7.0-8.0, hardness around 120ppm, 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, nitrate less than 60.

Gravel + axoltols = bad idea
This can lead to gravel being eaten, which can lead to impacting. There are a number of alternatives, including river-rock, slate, silica sand, and bare bottomed.

23c is definitely high. Try to lower it using either a chiller or by bringing the whole room temperature down. Using ice can lead to dangerous temperature fluctuations so be very careful.

As to tank companions: if you have a stressed animal, adding another animal only aggravates the issue. In particular, the crayfish, being a scavenger, could cause serious harm to you axolotls while they sleep. Personally speaking, I don't house anything else with axolotls.

Hope that helps.

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Um, the crawfish are in a seperate tank, they would murder the axoltls, rip them to shreds, I have a seperate tank with Guppies, they in that.
I have covered the bottom of the tank with a layer of sand, there is no exposed gravel.
Temperature, I'm adding ice-blocks of tank water, and refrigerating jugs of tank water and cycling those too.
I want an as natural tank as possible, good substrate, plants, a snail, and feeder fish, not dead meat.

Why didn't you just remove the gravel and stones THEN put in sand ? I don't want to be a jerk, but it looks like the gravel is being exposed as well as the stones.

As for the temperature, there are lots of other people from Australia on here with some great ideas how to keep it down without breaking the bank buying a chiller.

I want to create a good natural environment, I have a substrate filter, and yes I'm getting more sand to cover those exposed pebbles.
I'm gunner get some more plants too.
I figure with substrate filters, plants etc I will have a good low care environment, plenty of oxygen, low nutrient= a healthy cycle...
I work away from home 2 weeks at a time and have to rely on my son to look after them, and he's not always here.
They gunner go hungry too, until they learn to hunt, I'm not feeding them meat or pellets that make a mess, the guppies do their part too, they clean up the little particles that fall to the floor, and I only feed them seaweed flakes.
Temperature is a worry, I'll start a new post for that...

Live guppies are generally inadequate for the needed calorie and nutrient content.

Axolotls are voracious eaters, but honestly, not the best hunters. You can have a school of fish in the tank and the axolotls might eat them all or may only catch the random straggler that practically swam into their mouths. Your animals will vary, of course.

As you do have someone to look in on them, it would be a good idea to make sure their diet is supplemented. Earthworms or trout feed are the best choices, with bloodworms being a solid second. All three are readily accepted by most axolotls, with little mess afterwards.

Herc, the black fulla, and Zena the blonde R.I.P were both voracious hunters, he's clean up 6 guppies overnight, got a bit expensive.
None of these new guys seem to be into it.
So I'll see if I can get blood worms or pallets. I've got brine shrimp, but they disintegrate and go everywhere, the guppies clean them up.
I've found a supply of cherry shrimp and I'll try those as well.
The snail has lost a tentacle but!
As I write they are feeding from the surface, I'd prefer something solid as food, but since they are feeding, I'll give them another block, cut up of course...

Try earthworms. Brine shrimp are not appropriate for adult axolotls. Guppies are not a natural food for axolotls, either (as they come from fishless waters). They're not adept at hunting fish as they don't do it in the wild. By saying 'they're going to learn to hunt or they'll go hungry', you're really saying that you're not going to provide them with the appropriate food, and they'll have to get by on what you offer or go hungry. Real responsible!

You're going to need a bigger tank. That tank is barely big enough for one axolotl, let alone 3. The middle picture shows an axolotl with no gills. That's not normal. I would suspect it's suffering from ammonia poisoning by being kept in such an overcrowded tank.

If you want to create a natural tank as possible, you should set it up like a natural axolotl habitat, not how you want it, and just assume that is good enough for axolotls.

And get rid of the gravel. Even if you cover it with sand, axolotls will still root through the sand and uncover it. Additionally, such a thick layer of substrate will turn anaerobic quickly, and that could poison your tank.

Kaysie, you beat me to it.

Earth worms are a great food supply, easy to culture, no clean up, and they are best for your axolotls.

Do Not add more sand, I understand your logic but it will be more work, and the gas pockets from adding to much sand is dangerous. Plus the small pebbles will impact your axies for sure. I would recommend starting your substrate over again. Take it all out, if you want to spend time and less money try separating the pebbles from the sand. I personally would take it all out and just spend the money and add new sand, less time and then you will be sure no pebbles got left behind.

I know it sound like alot of work but it needs to be fixed or you will just be posting in sick axolotls soon. Good luck!

I think the biggest problem is the under gravel filter

Can you not remove that? Put in a sponge filter, ( there are some really good how to make your own sponge filters on you tube, and if you used a bit of the gravel you have in your tank already it will have the good bacteria on it :happy

That way you can have a small layer of sand.

The axies really churn it up and move it around.

I've taken all the pebbles out, but for a few which I've stacked up with a few stones on top.
I'm still feeding them, the guppies are supplementary, I'm not going let them die. I see the older axoltl has lost it's gills on one side, it must be 50% ammonia poisoning, cos the other sides alright, more like it had a run in with the other axie. There's small guppies in there and they stay away from the axies. I've seen them eat one, so they are getting the hang of it.
It's too dry here at the moment for earthworms, but I'm going start a worm farm.
I got some cherry shrimp, but they seem to eat them all. I'll have a go at breeding them up..
I take on board what you say about the depth of the gravel, but I don't care for your attititude 'real responsible' , as a moderator can't you learn to be a bit more polite?
There are a lot of differing opinions on axoltl care, i speak to breeders and aquarium owners, I read up posts on here too, but I'd be changing my setup every day if I listened to everybody. Sure you's are all experts, and go ahead flame me, it's easy!

Kaysie said:

Try earthworms. Brine shrimp are not appropriate for adult axolotls. Guppies are not a natural food for axolotls, either (as they come from fishless waters). They're not adept at hunting fish as they don't do it in the wild. By saying 'they're going to learn to hunt or they'll go hungry', you're really saying that you're not going to provide them with the appropriate food, and they'll have to get by on what you offer or go hungry. Real responsible!

You're going to need a bigger tank. That tank is barely big enough for one axolotl, let alone 3. The middle picture shows an axolotl with no gills. That's not normal. I would suspect it's suffering from ammonia poisoning by being kept in such an overcrowded tank.

If you want to create a natural tank as possible, you should set it up like a natural axolotl habitat, not how you want it, and just assume that is good enough for axolotls.

And get rid of the gravel. Even if you cover it with sand, axolotls will still root through the sand and uncover it. Additionally, such a thick layer of substrate will turn anaerobic quickly, and that could poison your tank.

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Dexter said:

Sure you's are all experts, and go ahead flame me, it's easy!

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You asked for advice - people are trying to give some. No one is trying to put you down.

Dexter said:

They gunner go hungry too, until they learn to hunt, I'm not feeding them meat or pellets that make a mess

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You really do need to feed the axolotls the correct food, as suggested. Mess is all a part of pet ownership. As Kaysie and others have mentioned, they do not naturally 'hunt'. They are more oportunistic predators, and wait till food wriggles its way to them. While some guppies may make the mistake of swimming near the axolotl, it will not be eating enough of them.

Earthworms, a great diet for axolotls, are not messy. You can buy small worm kits from places such as Bunnings Warehouse in Australia, which usually come with worms. They are reasonably priced.

Dexter said:

I take on board what you say about the depth of the gravel, but I don't care for your attititude 'real responsible' , as a moderator can't you learn to be a bit more polite?
There are a lot of differing opinions on axoltl care, i speak to breeders and aquarium owners, I read up posts on here too, but I'd be changing my setup every day if I listened to everybody. Sure you's are all experts, and go ahead flame me, it's easy!

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I don't think anybody wants to 'flame' you. To be honest though, you are making the job easy by ignoring the advice being given to you. I don't care if the Queen told you axolotls can be kept on gravel - the general consensus is that any kinds of stones or gravel in your aquarium can possibly (and probably) be harmful to your axolotls.

The three basic items humans need for survival are water, food and shelter. I imagine for an axolotl it is much the same. By keeping your axolotls on an inappropriate substrate you are dismissing their need for appropriate shelter. While your axolotls may be lucky and not decide to swallow any of the stones, by keeping the stones in your aquarium you are providing your axolotl with an unsuitable habitat.

For sure ALL of the white stones in your aquarium need to be gone (I'm pretty sure you made a post a while back about one of your axolotls not eating and dying and everyone said it was probably the stones?)
With your gravel substrate that thick you will have to move it around probably once every day or so with your hands so that it doesn't form the poisonous gas pockets that Kaysie mentioned (plus it can get FILTHY fast with axies and all that filth will rise into the water when you disturb the gravel bed.) This would also mean that your sand layer on top idea wouldn't work.
One thing I will commend is that you have at least chosen what looks like a rather small, finer gravel which might not cause as many problems as others in the short term; but the best option would be to remove it all, for the reasons mentioned above, and stick with sand.

Aquarium/pet store owners are often the worst culprits when it comes to axolotl care tbh. I have never ever seen an axolotl in an aquarium that wasn't on gravel, so I don't trust them in regards to anything to do with axies.

As for the tank size and cycling; as was mentioned, you need a larger tank. 50L is probably just big enough for one axolotl. If your tank is cycling you will need to do a daily ammonia test and do a 15-30% water change everyday in order to keep the ammonia down. Letting your animals sit in a tank environment that is dangerous and toxic to them can be considered animal cruelty.
If only half of your axolotls gills are missing then it is plausible it might have been from an attack from having too many axolotls in such close quarters. I once had to put four of my axies in a 3 foot (140L) tank temporarily and within hours there had been numerous attack attempts. Do both your axies have a dark hiding place? Most here on Caudata recommend at least two hiding places per axie. Also, the recommended tank size for 2 adult axolotls is 90cm or 3 foot (and preferably around 120L or 30 gallons.)


Sorry this post is an essay but I am sick of people too stubborn to listen to the quality advice being given to them, especially when there is more than enough proof lying around in the forum archives about why keeping axolotls a certain way might be bad.

Thank you, Dan. Took the words right out of my mouth!

Also, I am an 'expert'; that's why I am a moderator. I'm fairly well-respected here, and in real life too. My job is to educate, and generally keep the forum running smoothly. If you don't want to accept the education, that's your problem. But don't expect anyone to be polite when you just spit back in their face when they give you advice.

Really, you can keep your axolotls any way you want. Keep them on gravel. Keep 10 in that tank! But don't expect them to live very long, and don't expect anyone here to have any sympathy or assistance when they start to die (again).

Dexter said:

They gunner go hungry too, until they learn to hunt, I'm not feeding them meat or pellets that make a mess, the guppies do their part too, they clean up the little particles that fall to the floor, and I only feed them seaweed flakes.

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I don't know what pellets you've used, but I feed my axies Axolotl Pellets, with tweezers. I just hold one in front of there face and they eat it up. I give them 4-7 each (depends on when they stop showing interest), and it takes only 5 minutes to feed two axies this way.
Even if I accidentally drop a pellet or two, it takes hours for them to disintegrate, and they always find them and eat them before that happens. They are very nutritious and my axies love them.

My axies get guppies (that I breed, to make sure I'm not giving them anything with diseases) too, but only a few in their tank every month, just so they can had some live food to catch.

Please please please feed your axies some proper food. Even the bloodworm/brineshrimp cubes isn't good enough. They need worms or PROPER pellets. (not tetramin or reptomin or anything like). At this rate, they will soon be malnourished and die, and that makes me sad.