The Doctor is in ... the fridge. (Constipation, possible impaction)

I have been the Doctor's caretaker since December 25th, and the Doctor has been out of the pet store since December 20 (and until the 27th was in a bare, unfiltered 5.5 gallon tank). The Doctor, a leucistic axolotl about 7 inches long and I think not yet sexually mature yet has been behaving oddly over the last few days, and between my anxiety attacks I have been researching the cause and cure.

Last night at ~11:00, I began the process of swapping out the (mostly) > 1.5" (2.5cm) river rock substrate - which, while beautiful, is hell to keep clean - to pool filter sand, and have replaced about 8 inches of my 20L (30"x12"x12") inch tank so far. This is when I noticed the discomfort/weird legs/'stuck poop.'

S/he has been:

• Dec 20 to Dec 27 (5.5 gallon tank):
  • pooping stones - about a dozen in all;
  • not super-interested in eating, but looking good;
• Dec 28 to ~3 days ago:
  • ate a bit each day, and as far as I know, kept it down. Seemed healthy and normal, far as I can tell;
• for the last 2 to 4 days:
  • happily eating, but subsequently spitting-out/throwing up all food (Hikari sinking carnivore pellets & freeze-dried tubifex worms - until my worm farm is in business, at least) - it took me awhile to find because it was thoughtfully hidden in the corner;
• beginning last night:
  • dragging bum, legs straight back, with something hanging out the butt - I did not get up close and personal to further investigate;
  • flapping gills much more frequently than I remember (~5 to 7 seconds between flaps);
  • big curve in tail - not a tight curl at the end, but a big wave;

I have fridged the Doctor in a Ziploc Large Rectangle container (11.8"x7"x4", ~0.75 gallons, a second is ready for the water swap) in the hopes that s/he'll relax and evacuate what's ailing him/her.


My Assessment:
I believe the Doctor is either constipated or has some impaction from some of the aquarium gravel. It is possible that s/he inhaled one of the 3/4" to 1" rocks that were in there, but pretty unlikely.

Questions:

1. Does my assessment seem reasonable?
2. Is the container sufficiently sized?
3. Should I have just left the Doctor alone instead, or does this seem a reasonable approach?
4. How long should I keep the Doctor on ice?
5. Do you need any more info from me to help answer these?

As a silver lining, I guess with the Doctor in the fridge, I can just go nuts and change the rest of the substrate all at once now - and maybe even let the tank cycle properly. Woohoo.

Appendix 1 - Specs (API Master Test Kit):

• Water depth: 8" (20.3 cm);
• Filter: Hagen Elite air-driven rectangular foam filter and one air stone at the other end (about a bubble a second);
• Temp: ~15c at night, to 18c during the day/evening - considering adding a heater to keep it steady;
• pH: 6.8
• Ammonia: ~1.0ppm measured before daily 25% water change, for about a week;
• Nitrites and trates: zero;
• GH and KH are bloody low, but that doesn't seem to be a problem;

Thanks for any insights - despite my anxiety, I'm having fun - hopefully the Doctor will too!

Glad to hear you are removing ALL the stones.... I made the same mistake with "Lottie"... she had small stones/pebbles in her tank for 1 3/4 years, and then I've learnt the error of my ways...she has not eaten for 24 days, and I thought she may have stones in her abdomen, so I've fridged her, and nothing passed for 2 days, so I'm in the process of leaving her container to come up to her tank temp, then I'll put her back in her tank, and hope one day soon she will eat...
Wish you all the best with "Doctor":happy:

My Lottie said:

Glad to hear you are removing ALL the stones.... I made the same mistake with "Lottie"... she had small stones/pebbles in her tank for 1 3/4 years, and then I've learnt the error of my ways...she has not eaten for 24 days, and I thought she may have stones in her abdomen, so I've fridged her, and nothing passed for 2 days, so I'm in the process of leaving her container to come up to her tank temp, then I'll put her back in her tank, and hope one day soon she will eat...
Wish you all the best with "Doctor":happy:

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The smallest river rocks in the Doctor's tank were about 1/2" (1.25 cm), and there were maybe 5 of those. Some (maybe 15) were around 3/4" (1.9 cm), but about 90% were 1.25" (3.2 cm) and over. I knew not to put anything smaller in the tank - however, the pet store, as usual, did not.

It's also possible that my constant meddling - created by not being comfortable with the rocks - has stressed the Doctor out a bit; hopefully the fridge shall fix all.

Best of luck with your li'l pal, too!

Oh, an additional question:

How long does/could it take to pass any/all stones while fridged? Days? Weeks?

Hi there,

Axolotls that eat stones as big as the ones you have mentioned are unfortunately probably going to be unlikely to be able to pass them

I think the best thing you can probably do is to take your axolotl to a vet for an x-ray. They will be able to determine whether your axolotl has swallowed a stone. There have been cases here on Caudata of vets being able to use forceps to pull the stone out through the axolotls mouth and others where the axolotl has been operated on to remove the stone and survived.

To answer your question about how long it may take for them to pass; I had an axolotl come home from the pet store and go in to the fridge for a heat related stress issue and a week later she pooped out a bunch of stones. I've heard other cases of people saying their axolotl pooped stones months after they had come home from the pet store.

It's possible if they are the smaller stones you mentioned an axolotl MAY have a chance to pass them but even at 1cm it wouldn't be pleasant for them and could still result in problems. I strongly recommend getting your axolotl checked out by a vet, for the time being fridging will slow your axolotls metabolism so that it will not have to eat.

While I do not recommend handling your axies in any way, in this case it may be useful - when my axie had stones in her from the pet store, if I lightly rubbed her sides and underside with my finger I could very distinctly feel the stones. Perhaps you could try this to determine if there is a stone in your axolotl and maybe give you an idea of it's size.

I hope any of this info is helpful and I wish your axolotl a speedy recovery.

danchristopher said:

Axolotls that eat stones as big as the ones you have mentioned are unfortunately probably going to be unlikely to be able to pass them

It's possible if they are the smaller stones you mentioned an axolotl MAY have a chance to pass them but even at 1cm it wouldn't be pleasant for them and could still result in problems. I strongly recommend getting your axolotl checked out by a vet, for the time being fridging will slow your axolotls metabolism so that it will not have to eat.

I think the best thing you can probably do is to take your axolotl to a vet for an x-ray.

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I'm 99% sure it doesn't involve one of the new rocks - it is possible, since I didn't test all the rocks before they went in, that some mineral or metal was leeching out and causing but if s/he still has problems back in the tank, I'll look into taking the Doctor to the vet.

danchristopher said:

To answer your question about how long it may take for them to pass; I had an axolotl come home from the pet store and go in to the fridge for a heat related stress issue and a week later she pooped out a bunch of stones. I've heard other cases of people saying their axolotl pooped stones months after they had come home from the pet store.

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Cool. I guess the Doc will probably just hang out in the fridge until the new sand-based tank cycles, so hopefully that will help whatever's going on wash out.

danchristopher said:

While I do not recommend handling your axies in any way, in this case it may be useful - when my axie had stones in her from the pet store, if I lightly rubbed her sides and underside with my finger I could very distinctly feel the stones. Perhaps you could try this to determine if there is a stone in your axolotl and maybe give you an idea of it's size.

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I have been changing fridging water by physically moving the Doctor from one bin to the other, and haven't noticed any protrusions or bumps, but I'll take an extra second and check when I make the next move.

danchristopher said:

I hope any of this info is helpful and I wish your axolotl a speedy recovery.

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Absolutely. I appreciate it very much; thanks!

Coldnorthtoy said:

I have been changing fridging water by physically moving the Doctor from one bin to the other, and haven't noticed any protrusions or bumps, but I'll take an extra second and check when I make the next move.

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Ok, so no bumps, nothing unusual in terms of appearance or feel. The Doctor looks quite pale (inactivity and soft water, I suspect), but otherwise looks healthy and happy, but has no interest in eating pellets in the fridge either, so I'm beginning to think its a function of being a picky eater.

The ammonia in the big tank is up to 3ppm, no movement on nitrites or nitrates, so I bet I've got at least a couple of weeks left on the cycle. I think I'm going to move the Doctor back to the 5.5 gallon with daily (~50%) water changes until the big one cycles through, because I'm fairly confident that there's no impaction.

How long has the big tank been cycling? And what have the ammonia levels been so far?
I experienced a spike in ammonia and within days my tank was cycled so it's possible that could be what's happening in your big tank.

Glad to hear that you don't think he's impacted If you're moving him into such a small tank I'd probably recommend water changes of 100% because the ammonia will build up faster and you'll have a harder time keeping it under control with less water to buffer it.

danchristopher said:

How long has the big tank been cycling? And what have the ammonia levels been so far? I experienced a spike in ammonia and within days my tank was cycled so it's possible that could be what's happening in your big tank.

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Only a week. Long time to go now, I guess. I did just add some plants (java fern, water wisteria, micro sword) so hopefully that'll help speed up the cycle. Ammonia is over 4 ppm, under 8 ppm - probably in the middle.

danchristopher said:

Glad to hear that you don't think he's impacted If you're moving him into such a small tank I'd probably recommend water changes of 100% because the ammonia will build up faster and you'll have a harder time keeping it under control with less water to buffer it.

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Will do at least 75% water changes daily, but I'll try to get closer to 100% if I can. Thanks, though!

Ok, so I've attached pictures of how the Doctor's been doing. S/he really doesn't look unhappy at all, just maybe a bit uncomfortable. Gills are back, tail is straight (that isn't 'curled,' is it? Just "there's a wall there" bent, right?).

That's an earthworm in one of the shots, but the Doctor doesn't seem interested - tried eating a piece earlier, but it was too big, and so spat it out.

Anyone have any further suggestions? Thanks!

Have you tried wiggling the worm in front of him? I initially try to drop my earthworms in the tank with them, but sometimes they just circle around the tank without finding it X) I have to grab it with my Turkey baster and drop it right on their nose for them to finally grab it. My silly axies

Has The Doctor (love the name ) been pooping regularly? You said "Stuck poop," I don't know if that means that he hasn't been going or if the waste if particularly sticky.

GazerOfStars said:

Have you tried wiggling the worm in front of him? I initially try to drop my earthworms in the tank with them, but sometimes they just circle around the tank without finding it X) I have to grab it with my Turkey baster and drop it right on their nose for them to finally grab it. My silly axies

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Have tried that; he wasn't interested. I've left some blackworms in there so hopefully he got hungry last night.

GazerOfStars said:

Has The Doctor (love the name ) been pooping regularly? You said "Stuck poop," I don't know if that means that he hasn't been going or if the waste if particularly sticky.

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Haven't seen any poop for awhile, but he hasn't held down food for awhile either. Would tear anything while in the fridge.

Coldnorthtoy said:

Would tear anything while in the fridge.

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That should be "Wouldn't eat anything while in the fridge." Thanks, iPhone autocorrect.

Well, after having the Doctor in the 5.5-gallon tank for a few days with absolutely no change - still no eating, still looks constipated - I decided to re-fridgerate last night.

This time he's staying in the fridge for 2 weeks, and I will be leaving blackworms in the container with her in case he gets hungry. I'm also going to just check ammonia levels daily, and probably do the waterchange/tub-swap process only every two days; I imagine being shuffled about daily ain't too relaxing either.

Hopefully everything will turn out ok.

Update on my "lottie"... incase you haven't read posts... she finally ate ... after 1 month!!!... She was only in fridge 2 days... no poop then, and still none yet... BUT she's active and eating... I guess sometimes they just have upsets, etc
So you can see... they can go ages without food!

I reckon its not a good idea to give food while they are being fridged, as it is to slow down metabolism... therefore they don't want to eat.
All the best... "Lottie's mum :happy:

My Lottie said:

Update on my "lottie"... incase you haven't read posts... she finally ate ... after 1 month!!!... She was only in fridge 2 days... no poop then, and still none yet... BUT she's active and eating... I guess sometimes they just have upsets, etc
So you can see... they can go ages without food!

I reckon its not a good idea to give food while they are being fridged, as it is to slow down metabolism... therefore they don't want to eat.
All the best... "Lottie's mum :happy:

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Cool.

Did Lottie look constipated like my photos above?

I've posted a pic of Lottie when I took her out of fridge... she has a fat looking belly....... can' t say if she looked constipated, or not ? she's 4-5 yrs old, so a mature girl.! Didn't loose any noticeable weight for a month of not eating!

She still hasn't pooped! I'll be waiting.......

Ok, in transferring the Doctor to his other fridge-room, I found this round red thing.

Also, it looks like the Doctor's fingertips are going gray, and his 'nuts' are growing - so I think he may be in the process of 'becoming a man.' Is it possible that the transition is causing his stress and lack of eating? Is the red thing related to his maturing?

This is so stressful. :dizzy:

EDIT: I should add - this is the first thing that's come out of the Doctor's butt since going in the fridge.

Also, I've determined that the fridge shelf the doctor is on sits between 4.8 celsius at the back and 5.2 celsius at the front (measured with my laser thermometer, which I finally found :grin: ) - I have turned it up a bit to try to get it all above 5.0 c.

My Lottie said:

I've posted a pic of Lottie when I took her out of fridge... she has a fat looking belly....... can' t say if she looked constipated, or not ? she's 4-5 yrs old, so a mature girl.! Didn't loose any noticeable weight for a month of not eating!

She still hasn't pooped! I'll be waiting.......

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Same back leg posture as the Doctor, which apparently means 'constipated.' I thought these were supposed to be 'robust' creatures?

Ok, another little red thing today. Weird.

I also noticed that the Doc's cloaca area seems ... damaged, similar to (but not as bad as) in this post.

It's possible that the Doctor may have dragged his bum on a sharp rock. Hopefully the fridge stay will make it all better - at least there's stuff 'moving through' now.