Safe for axies?

Http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_aquarium_background.php

Are the materials for this project appropriate for use in an axolotl aquarium?

According to the MSDS for Quikrete Quikwall, it contains portland cement, lime, and limestone - none of which are very good for an axolotl, as far as I understand.

I suppose in theory, if you built it, let it cure, and then thoroughly sealed the whole thing in a food-safe epoxy, it might work - but I think it's probably not worth the risk.

Is there a similar product that would be safe?

Since I believe most concrete is based on portland cement, I'm not sure if you'll find anything that will work, but again, if you can effectively seal the concrete, it might be fine, but I certainly could be wrong.

Food-safe concrete sealing:
www.cement.org/decorative/Concrete Countertop Sealers.pdf
What Food Safe Sealer Can I Use on Concrete Countertops? | eHow.com
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-...l-discussion/71719-styrofoam-backgrounds.html

Here's some interesting points on styrofoam in an aquatic environment: View topic - Using styrofoam in a tank??? • PlanetCatfish.com

I'm also quite interested in eventually building a 3D background, so all this searching is self-inspired... Here are some threads on 3D backgrounds:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...um/77450-3d-backgrounds-external-filters.html
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...ubstrate/81571-3d-background-bottom-tank.html

This one is quite informative - he coated it in silicone and sand, which may also work for you: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-...ia-etc/79332-new-200l-tank-3d-background.html

Thank you very much! I'll check those out

More research.

Apparently Drylok might be a good alternative; I've also come across it in a bunch of other places. It's apparently also a sealer/sealant, so you get the color and sealant in one: Cichlid-Forum :: View topic - My DIY Drylok background <= amazing background

Also came across this discussion about food-safe sealants, with a link to a Sherwin-Williams drinking-water-safe epoxy product.

I love it when other people have similar projects in mind. Things are easier when people are bouncing ideas and research off one another If I come across anything interesting (that you haven't already linked me to), I'll let you know!

On that note, I found a thread that describes (after a couple of posts) how to color drylok so it looks more natural.

Some cool stuff in that one.

I'll have to see a picture of yours when it's done! I won't get to do mine until summer- poor college students aren't allowed to spend their housing money on fish tanks, apparently xD

So I really like how natural this one looks- it has 'caves' here and there, which is always nice for an axie tank- they do enjoy hiding. This one has the stacked rock look I'm going for, with ledges for plants/resting spots/etc. I think with a little modification, a cave could be set up in the lower left corner without too much difficulty. Maybe with a hole in the roof and another cave above it.

I like this one a lot, but the color is almost too intense. Good inspiration for rock shape though.

And, of course, a step by step video tutorial is always helpful. He has more videos where he goes over sealing it, painting it, etc. In the comments, he says he had problems with his fish picking at the background and that he was definitely going to go with drylok next time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95HShae6x2E&list=UUlL7bR9-SglNy50_tpXGgFQ&index=8&feature=plcp

This is awesome. The materials might need to be changed a bit to make it axie safe, but it comes out looking pretty cool!

I was thinking- drilling holes into the bottom of the polystyrene and siliconing rocks into them might help weigh it down? What do you think?

Silver said:

I'll have to see a picture of yours when it's done! I won't get to do mine until summer- poor college students aren't allowed to spend their housing money on fish tanks, apparently xD

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...Also a poor student, so I guess we'll both have to wait.

I'll have a look at the video when I get home; looks interesting though! And I'll continue to add any links I find in here too; might as well make a collection!

Silver said:

I was thinking- drilling holes into the bottom of the polystyrene and siliconing rocks into them might help weigh it down? What do you think?

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I've had some ideas about this; I'm at work now, so I'll try to remember to come back in and post them.

It'd be nice if something like that would work- I would rather not silicone it directly to my tank (my filter will be built into it)

Silver said:

And, of course, a step by step video tutorial is always helpful. He has more videos where he goes over sealing it, painting it, etc. In the comments, he says he had problems with his fish picking at the background and that he was definitely going to go with drylok next time.

Click to expand...

That is a stupidly fantastic tutorial. And a pretty cool background to boot.

Silver said:

It'd be nice if something like that would work- I would rather not silicone it directly to my tank (my filter will be built into it)

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Ok, I'm back. I had come across a few threads where they talk about siliconing sand to the bottom of the tank to get the sand look without the sand hassle, and this idea occurred to me - and I hope I can clearly explain it.

Background:
Base your 3D background on a 'back plate' of ~1/8" acrylic that snugly fits between the tank bottom and the tank rim. Add whatever you want to it, but leave the bottom 1/2" of 'back plate' exposed.

To help 'lighten it up' (which actually just makes it less buoyant ), I think I would follow the video tutorial's approach, but I would match the front and back lines so that it is 1" thick (or probably 1/2" or so) throughout, which would then be attached to the 'back plate.'

'Floor Box:'
Build a 'floor box' from aquarium-safe plastic, maybe 1/2" tall, with four sides - top, bottom, front & back - with open 'ends' - that fits snugly in the tank except for in the 'width' direction (not length, but front to back); leave it 1/8" narrower than the width of the tank, so that there's a 1/8" gap at the back of the tank.

You could add texture to the 'floor box' by layering additional pieces of acrylic or whatever, you could silicone sand to the floor box, or add 'lips' to hold sand to be added, or even leave it bare.

Assembly:
Install the 'back plate' and background on the back of the tank. Put some rocks or other safe-but-heavy items (tiles, etc) in the 'floor box', and then slip it in to the tank, and fit it against the 'back plate' and under the 3D portion.

The 'floor box' will keep the bottom of the background against the back of the tank.

The only thing left to figure out is how to ensure that the top stays under the rim - there are a few options here, and I'm not sure what would work best. If we could find something that's very secure but 'disconnectable,' then you could quite easily make the floor box a bit less 'snug' and then just disconnect & slip the background out.

Using my 29.5"-long tank with 9" of water depth and an average foam thickness of 3/4", there would be about 0.00326 cubic meters submerged, which would generate a buoyant force of about 7.2 lbs - I can't see that being too much for the rim to handle.

...I'm pretty sure that this setup should actually work - at least in theory.

Coldnorthtoy said:

blah blah blah 'floor box'

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...Actually, this could be a 'floor plate' just as easily, with just a bottom and a back, onto which your substrate went. It would still serve the same purpose. And if you 'over-bent' the back, so it angled slightly forward, it would be easier to get the background out - again, assuming we had some way to secure the top effectively.

Silver said:

I was thinking- drilling holes into the bottom of the polystyrene and siliconing rocks into them might help weigh it down? What do you think?

Click to expand...

...Actually, if you cut the 'back curve' (like I mentioned a couple of posts ago) on all the foam except the bottom piece, then you could fill the gap between the foam and the acrylic 'back plate' with silica sand - either just straight-up, or mixed with epoxy or maybe silicone - and then you could also not do the 'back curve' on the top foam piece to cap it off.

Based on my calculations of relative densities, it looks like if we can make silica sand be 35% of the total volume of the display (with foam as the other 65%), the display would weigh as much as the water it displaces, meaning it won't float. That would mean you could skip the 'floor box/floor plate', and go right to the floor with the display, and then the only issue is keeping it standing up - which would be way easier than keeping it from popping out of the tank at Mach 3.

Hmmmmmmm...

Great idea! I knew there was a way to do that. When I build mine, I think I'm going to let the tank sit critter-less for a while so if the foam shoots out, no axies will be harmed.

Fair enough, but think I'd just do a bathtub test to see if it floats - if it don't float, it won't pop out..

But then again, since it would be a 'fresh tank,' I'd probably run it with carbon in the filter, the filter on high and with frequent & substantial water changes until the tank cycled to ensure any chemicals present had cleared out prior to 'axolotl installation.'

Coldnorthtoy said:

The only thing left to figure out is how to ensure that the top stays under the rim - there are a few options here, and I'm not sure what would work best. If we could find something that's very secure but 'disconnectable,' then you could quite easily make the floor box a bit less 'snug' and then just disconnect & slip the background out.

Click to expand...

Suction cups? Like the kind you use to attach a filter to the wall? you could silicone them onto the background, maybe fill the space between it and the glass with sand to keep your axie from getting trapped.