Odd behaviour in tiger?

Hi all, it's my first time on the forum and I'm hoping that you might be able to help figure out what's going on with my tiger.

I've had two of them, wild caught from my backyard, for almost two years now. They live in the same cage (I'm not sure of the gallons off the top of my head but it's 1 ft x 2 ft base) and have since we caught them as they're both approximately 9" long. The one salamander (Salvadore) has always been larger, he's broader in the shoulders and hips than the other but their behaviour was always similar and as far as I could tell pretty typical for salamanders (voracious eaters, begging for food, come running when they hear their feeder, etc.)

Recently, in the last month or so, the smaller salamander (Junior) has been having strange behaviour. He burrows deep into the substrate (I provide them with hiding places, so he had never buried before this time unless I didn't keep the humidity high enough) and seems very lethargic, never coming for food anymore. Not only that, but when we attempt to feed him he refuses and is appearing quite skinny next to the well-fed Salvadore. We used to feed them a diet of only dusted crickets but have recently (in the last 2-3 months) have been branching out to hornworms with occasion meal worms or super worms (with the heads crushed of course). Tonight I tried digging some earth worms but he still refused them (Salvadore, by the way, will voraciously eat all of these things, so I assume they are appetizing to a salamander). We'll probably try to feed him a few crickets again this week, just in case he's a picky eater (but he was eating the mealies and hornworms fine for a while), but was hoping that maybe someone on here could point out other things I could try to get him back to his 'normal' self.

Basic tank info, we keep them in a 1 ft x 2 ft tank with a 3-4" deep substrate of plantation soil with a just a little moss mixed in and on top to keep up humidity. They have a small water dish just large enough so they can submerge most of their body at once, a fake tree with hiding holes, a fake plant that creates a hiding hole in the corner and a fake rock shelter that they both can (and often do) fit under. We change the water every 1-2 days and the substrate about once a month. I thought it may have been too cold in the basement (~18 C) so have moved them upstairs (since Junior's behaviour change, not before) and while they are not showing signs of distress I'm worried about it being too hot up there for them (~23-24 C).

Any help, ideas, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I'm not too worried about him getting too skinny - yet. But if he continues to refuse food, I will really have to start worrying.

I would recommend moving them back to the basement right away. Even before I read that part of your post, I was thinking of suggesting that it might be the summer heat that was affecting Junior. Heat will tend to make them burrow more. You certainly do not need to worry about 18C being too cold, they will be fine even much cooler than that.

Another possibility is to try separating them. Sometimes a more-shy animal will go downhill in the presence of a more assertive individual. The tank you have is not particularly spacious for two tiger sals.

First a question, how long since Junior has eaten? You mention about a month of acting strange, but not sure if he has completely stopped eating. If it has been a month since he has eaten I would attempt to force feed him.

Second; It sounds like you have a 10 gallon aquarium. My aquarium is closer to 3 feet by 1 foot. And one of my two is a bit smaller than they other. One is 10" the other is around 7" maybe.

I would move them back down to the basement again. Also, obligatory, are you treating the water in the substrate and water dish with chloramine and chlorine treatment?

Third: How to force feed.

I had to force feed my smaller Tiger once, after it hadn't eaten for 2-3 weeks. It now eats again.

This is a two person job, so get someone not afraid of handling a cricket, if anything you can thump the cricket around or put it in a container in the fridge so it is slow.

You, being careful, and with wet hands, need to hold the Tiger so it can't jump out, preferably over something soft like a bed.

This is how my wife and I did it.

Tools needed:
Sick salamander
dusted cricket
someone to hold the cricket
Plastic waxed flosser, without flouride.


Now, hold the salamander firmly, but gently, and slip the floss into it's mouth. It should then try to pull away, or open its mouth and pull away. I then slipped my finger tip into it's mouth to hold it open.

Wife then inserted a cricket half way into the salamander's mouth, and it bit down on the cricket, then it's natural instinct took over and it ate it. I then fed it every other day like that, three times and it started eating normally again.

Be careful and good luck. I have read that they can sometimes just stop eating and force feeding them kind of restarts them. But this is no guarantee.

It just happens to be something I experienced also, and I was able to get my smaller Tiger to start feeding again after force feeding it.

Once again good luck. And if possible get them back to cooler area, get them a bit larger tank, or separate tanks if you can.

I would not advocate for force feeding. This can be dangerous in inexperienced hands leading to injury, broken jaw, abrasions, etc. This in my opinion is a last ditch measure.

I agree with Jennewts recommendations.

To entice the smaller animal to eat, you may want to try wax worms or phoenix worms. The hornworms you speak of - are those tomato hornworms? If so, I would avoid using these as food. Although I do not know if they will cause harm to salamanders, they can be lethal when fed to certain animals, such as young poulty. Hornworms feed on the leaves and other green parts of tomato plants ( a member of the deadly nightshade family), which are rich in alkaloids that can be toxic. With the variety of other available foods...I would personally not feed my tigers hornworms.

You may want to take a look at this article that describes food items for captive caudates Caudata Culture Articles - Food Items for Captive Caudates

Jan said:

I would not advocate for force feeding. This can be dangerous in inexperienced hands leading to injury, broken jaw, abrasions, etc. This in my opinion is a last ditch measure.

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/foods.shtml

Click to expand...

I do agree, I thought I added that caveat in there. My apologies if I did not.

Thanks for the advice guys, they're going back downstairs today. I'll see what I can do for a larger tank - the space I have is somewhat limited but I might be able to go up to a 3ft tank without much difficulty - I was considering this anyway as they've both grown a lot since I first got them (Sal was about 8", Junior about 6.5").

He's been acting funny for a month and decreased accepting food then, but was still eating occasionally. Three weeks ago he refused everything we tried to give them, we managed to get one bug into him the next week and this week he's refusing everything again.

We don't treat the water for the dish/substrate but we do let it sit at least 48 hours before using, which effectively dechlorinates the water (our water here doesn't have much chlorine in it). Would you recommend treating the water anyway? If so, any products you recommend? I'm trying to give them the best habitat I can =)

As for the hornworms, Jan: The kind I buy is raised on 'hornworm chow' so that they aren't eating any tomato plants through any part of their lifespan and their diet is such that the store hasn't had poisoning effects. The only reason we're using them is because even though I live in a small city, we have relatively little choice for feeding. Mostly we only get crickets, superworms, and meal worms. Only one place sells the hornworms and one kind of earthworm (I'm not sure which kind it is, I'll have to ask next time as I've been reading through the forums and it seems a lot of people recommend night crawlers?) I'll ask there and see if they have any wax/phoenix worms. I'm always looking for the best thing to be feeding my critters - we don't have a large community for amphibian owners here, especially not tigers as to own them they have to be wild caught. So most people in town I ask are just guessing (it's been a lot of trial and error and internet articles, haha)

Thanks for that link Jan - Really helpful!

Thanks again guys, this has been really helpful

Nightcrawlers are earth worms. It is just another name for it. My local Walmart sells it in the bait section. Have you looked for that?

Also, I would suggest testing the water to see if it has chloramine, different than chlorine and won't be neutralized by sitting in the sun. If it doesn't, then letting the water sit a few days is fine.