Illness/Sickness: Release from fridge did not go well, I think Pear is dying - HELP!

Sorry, I posted this earlier as an update to my previous thread, only to realise that it would have been better as a new thread, so here it is again.

As an update to the following, I just checked on Pear in the fridge, and he is frantically trying to swim, he's on his right side with the left back leg still limp. Not sure what to do with him, leave him in the fridge, take out, or what? Please read below and tell me what you think. I'm afraid we are loosing him...

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Well, Pear went back into the big tank last night, but it did not go to plan, and he is back in the fridge again. :-( Here is what happened, if anyone has any ideas at all as to what is wrong with him, it would be greatly apprecaited, as I am lost and running out of ideas!

Pear was looking really good in the fridge at 5 dgrees Celcius, active and strong every time I took him out to change his water, so I decided it was time for him to go back in his tank. As the previous attempt to transfer him back failed, and he ended up in the fridge only 12 hours later, I wanted to do better this time! But it wasn't meant to be. Here is what happened.

After preparing him for a couple of days by adding fridged tank water into his fridge tub for a couple of days (25% first day, 50% the second day), yesterday afternoon at about 2.30pm, I took his tub out of the fridge and left it on the table, coverd by a tea towel, to slowly warm up.

At about 10pm, the water in the tub was only 2 degrees from the tank temperature of 19 degrees, and he was getting more active, so I put a bit of defrosted Turtle Mix (fish meal, blood worms & spinach) in the tub to see if he would eat, and he actually had a little go at it, although I don't think he really ate much at all. (Note, this is not his normal food, but was recommended by our local pet shop keeper as that's what she said she gives to her axies after fridging to get them eating again, so I thought I'd give it a go as Pear has not eaten for 3 weeks now).

All good so far, so at about 11pm, I took the tub over to the tank to float it. And the troubles began. As soon as I placed the tub in the water, he started to look less happy. In the hope that it would pass, I persisted, and floated the tub for 10min before adding some tank water and floating a further 5min. I stayed with him most of that time, keeping the tub steady as I didn't like the bloating look that started to develop under his chin.

After the floating time was up, I released him in the tank, and he swam away, moved around a bit and went into hiding. He didn't look comfortable though, but a bit bloated, and kept on trying to squeeze into some very awkward and weird places in the tank. He kept on going up to the surface for gulps of air, and when I finally went to bed at about midnight, he was floating up near the surface. The lights were off all the time, by the way.

This morning, it all had gone worse, and I was waken up by the kids with greetings of "Pear is upside-down in the tank and he is dead"! Shock horror! I got to the tank and there he was, lying on his back on the bottom of the tank, mouth open, looking bloated and all other possible stress signs visible.

But he wasn't dead. I picked him up and turned him around, and took a gulp of air as I took him up to the surface to take a closer look at him. As I released him again, he just sank right down to the bottom, although he did make attempts to swimm, and I realised that he had lost the control of his buoyancy, he could not swim, and he could not move his back legs at all but they were just hanging limp.

On the bottom of the tank, he landed kind of funny half on his side, and stayed there for a while before trying to move again. His gills were moving, and he dragged himself along the bottom with his front legs, the back legs still limp and motionless. And bloated, gasping for air. As I picked him up again, he gulped for more air on the surface.

So out he came, back into the tub. I still had some treated water in the bottles, at room temperature, so he was ok for that. Left him in the tub, covered up, on the table, while I took the kids to school. The tub seemed to calm him down a bit and he looked less stressed when I got home, but those back legs were still not moving. SO in to the fridge he went, yet again.

And now I need to decide what to do next with him! I have formed two options in my mind, what do you think? Any input would be greatly appreciated! Or even a plan 3!

1) Diagnosis: he is simply a very sensitive guy who gets distressed very easily, and needs to be treated accordingly.
Action plan: another couple of days in the fridge to calm him down again and hopefully regain the use of his legs and his buoyancy, then slow transfer back into the tank WITHOUT a floating tub but by hand, acclimatising differently first. ANd then hoping for the best, and hoping that he will start to eat again, as that was the initial issue we had three weeks ago.

2) Diagnosis: He has an internal problem (injury, infection, disease...) that I don't know about and cannot see.
Action plan: to the vet to find out what is going on.

Externally, he looks fine, except for these stress signs now, and the loss of mobility in his back legs. But there is no visible injury or infection or parasite that I can see. The rest of the axies in the tank are fine, eating and behaving normally, even the newbie that we got while he was in the fridge (although she has some injuries from before we got her, but that's another unrelated issue). And I don't think she's got nothing to do with Pear's condition as he started to stress out already before he got back into the tank and I don't think he even saw her as she was in hiding.

I wish I had a spare tank I could release him into, so he could try and get better in solitude. But all the tanks are in use, and the only one I could reset for him is a tiny little 1ft tank that's used for the baby guppies at the moment. It's a bit small for him, but I suppose if that's the only option, then I could do that. It has a little filter, and only minimal sand on the bottom, and a bit of java moss for the babies, so it could be reset for him quite easily. And if he'd end up eating the baby guppies, then good for him, it's food!

The problem I have is, that we have to go away for a week on Tuesday, so I cannot keep him in the fridge for long, something has to be done before that.

Or could I perhaps take him with us? In his fridge tub in a cooler bag with some ice bricks. Although I'm not so sure what Grandmother would say about a little monster in her fridge, she is not an animal person at all! And the trip is long as we are driving, with a break inbetween, so it might end up being even more stressful for him.

Sorry for the long post, and thank you for reading! I suppose I am just really worried and trying to bounce ideas even with myself here! Any input would be greatly appreciated!

I have attached a few photos from this morning, not a pretty sight.

A quick update to Pear, I just pulled him out of the fridge to have another closer look. He was on his side beacuse of having a massive gas bilud-up in his tummy. I gently massaged it out, and he burbed these big air bubbles out. Now at least his tummy looks like the normal size again and he is upright on his tummy. He was also wiggling his right back toes which is good, the left is still not moving...

What can cause gas to build up in their tummies like that? Stress? Swallowed air? Do they swallow air when stressed, or is it caused by something esle? It shouldn't be food related as he hasn't eaten for three weeks!

I'd say the gas build up would be from him gulping air too often. My girl tends to do it frequently and she floats but then when she's trying to swim back down she burps out all these bubbles and she's fine again. From memory axolotl's will do this a lot if there is something wrong with the water quality or if there isn't enough oxygen in the water. But then if this were the case, I would think that your other axy's would be doing the same thing. I assume the bloating in his mouth/throat has gone since you took him back out of the tank?

The bloating actually initially increased in the fridge. I assume he just could not get the air out and it kept on building up somehow. Maybe he managed to gulp in more in the shallow water, not sure. So when I took him out just before, he was lying on his right side, with left side c bloated and coming out of the water, he was like an air cushion!

I took him out and gently massaged along his sides and tummy, and could hear the gurgling, and then he started to burb out these bubbles, and his sides went down again. When I placed him back in the tub, he stayed on the tummy calmly, which was nice to see.

I just had a quick look just now again, and he was still on his tummy, so no more bloating of the tummy for now. If his throat & neck are still bloated, I cannot see as he is facing the other way and I don't want to pull him out again just yet. But will keep on doing regular checks on him to see how he's going.

Now his right back leg was correctly positioned as well, foot on the ground, not limp on his side. Could not see the left though.

Hoping for the best, fearing the worst...

Thanks, Jessicaanne!

Well by the sounds of it he is improving in every aspect! I believe you're doing all you can for him so only time will tell. I'm not sure why he's having so much trouble every time you try to move him back to the tank though

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-beginner-newt-salamander-axolotl-help-topics/f48-axolotls-ambystoma-mexicanum/f58-sick-axolotl/66897-lost-use-hind-legs.html

I figured this article may be able to help you. From what I've read, it sounds similar to what's happening to your little one.

That's what beats me too

I actually posted another thread about that to make sure I wasn't doing anything stupid, and as for my process of moving him out of the fridge to the tank, all should be fine. But it isn't! So frustrating!

I keep on thinking, too that there is something wrong with the tank water, but I cannot figure out what. All tests keep on showing normal levels of everything, and the other axies are fine. Go figure!

Having said that though, there could be some water issues that only he is sensitive to. We live in an old house with old pipes etc, and I personally get an itchy skin from the shower, as does my daughter. The boys in the family are not affected. And everytime I put my hand into the axy tank, it comes back covered in red burning itchy rash. My daughter gets a bit of it, but again, no one else is affected. And when doing water testing, the ammonia readings cannot be determined as the test water turns brown, not a colour on the chart! But the same happens with untreated tap water as well, exactly the same colour, so it's not just the tank, so we just thought that maybe the reagent in the kit had gone off, and have been trying to find a supplier where we could get a replacement without needing to buy a whole new test kit as everything else works. But maybe it's not the test reagnt but the water... I did check our water company's website as per them, they only use chlorine, not chloramine, but I've been overtreating the water as well, just in case it is chloramine anyway.

And yet, the other axolots in the tank are fine, plus we have four fish tanks, same tap water treated with the same water treatment, and they all fine as well. Mystery, it is!

I don't know, maybe I need to get some water samples and send them somewhere to be tested. And/or talk to my other half again, as he is the fish tank specialist and scientist of the house :happy:

So for now, Pear is in the fridge, again, until I get this solved somehow. Just had a look at him again, he hasn't ballooned again, although his face and throat are still bloated and mouth slightly open. I massaged him a bit again and he burbed out a bit more air. Now I'm just going to leave him be for a while. He was also moving his left leg when I touched it, so that's a good thing!

I was also thinking that he may be more sensitive to something in the water than the others. What brand of tests are you using because that does sound really bizarre..

Thank you for the link, Jessicaanne! Yes, a lot of it looks very similar, will have to read it properly again and see if there's atip there that could help us!

We've got this massive briefcase of tests by JBL (like I said, my other half is a scientist and he likes his test tubes ).

Is there a wy of determining how much oxyzen there is in the water, by the way? Just wondering. We will have to upgrade for a bigger filter for the tank with now 4 axies in there, and there is this monster of an external filter waiting in the garage, but it's got a leak in the pump hose so needs to be fixed first. We'll need that filter anyway, as we have to get a chiller for the summer.

Ohhh I see I just use the API master kit and that's great. No sorry I don't know about that one because I just test for the basics (pH, Ammonia, Nirite and Nitrate).

I also have to upgrade my filter and it's very daunting because just looking at pictures and reading up about it is making me confused and nervous haha.

Well I hope Pear is better very soon and you get to the bottom of whatever the issue is with him & the tank :happy:

An update on Pear before I go to bed.

I checked on him before, and he looked bit worse again. The bloating is still there under his chin, and the left side of his body keeps on bloating up a bit as well. Not as much as intially, but a bit anyway, still gassy. And he's lost the use of his back legs again :-(

I called the vet this afternoon, but they only had their answering machine on (they were supposed to be still there but no one picke up) so I left a message and hopefully I'll get a call back in the morning. And hopefully it's not too late for Pear!

The more I think about it, the more I get the feeling that he may have swalloed some of that stupid pea gravel we initally had in the tank, or he has some kind of internal infection. He hasn't pooed at all in all this time in the fridge (almost 3 weeks) so no gravel coming out or anything, but that's just the thing, and the gas and now the loss of movement in his back legs. Not good. :-(

He looked so good still a couple of days ago as I was planning to release him back in his tank! I do hope he is strong enough to hang in there just a little bit longer until I get him to the vet!

Sorry if you've already mentioned it above but have you tried feeding him at all? (Besides when you gave him that stuff before putting him back in the tank). Food may help to push anything out the other end if there is gravel or something. Just a thought but hopefully all goes well at the vet

Ok, Pear is at the vet hospital now, but the chances are he won't make it.

As per external examination, my photos of him throughout his stay with us and the complete case history (we stayed at the vet for a whole hour and the vet was not in a hurry at all but wanted to hear and see everything, and was very knowledgeable and confident in his manner), he may have an impaction but it's not likely. Instead, he has a bacterial infection that most likely started already before he came to us, and as it's been going on for that long, it has started to damage his liver and kidneys, to the point it may already be septicemic. Pear is on antibiotics now, but his chances of pulling through are only about 25%.

The reason he was reacting so poorly everytime we tried to get him back into his tank was the temperature change. Apparently being in the fridge is good for their healing, but it also masks many symptoms as the metabolism and circulation slow right down and their bodies are in the optimal situation. When they are taken out of the cold and the body temperature rises, so does the circulation of fluids and blood in the tissues, which in turn escalates the infection symptoms to the max.

So Pear's body was reacting to the higher temperature of the tank, the tissues started to swell with the increase of fluids with the bacteria, and the failing internal organs were producing the gases that made him balloon up even more. The fridge helped keeping the symptoms at bay and even hide them, but would not stop the bacteria doing its dirty work in his little body.

They also have water samples from Pear's tank, but the vet said our tank's water quality most likely was not the issue here.

If the initial infection was caused by a renal disease caused by an impaction, remains to be seen, first Pear needs to respond to the antibiotics. But as the vet said, it is not likely as there was no sign of it in the external examination ( which does not mean it's not there, but it is less worrying if you cannot feel it from the outside, he said). If the antibiotics cannot help Pear, then there is of course the option of more intervention to determine what is the cause, but it most likely won't save him, so he would be euthanised. Sad. So I am hoping for a miracle for Pear!

It was a very good hour spent with the vet, I learned a lot about many things there, especially about how an impaction forms and why it is so lethal (the vet actually drew it up on the board for me), and many other things. I'm so glad we have a vet clinic like this nearby, with good knowledgeable and experienced vets with also all the right equipment for treating exotic animals! I feel much more confident now about having more unusal pets and I think my daughter can get her Pygmy Bearded Dragons now :happy:

When I get the chance, I may type up what I learned on the forum. But now I need to go through my axie photos and send some to the vet clinic about Pear's symptoms and living conditions, and then set up our little tank for our little newbie axie, so she can be in peace and undisturbed by the others while we are gone.

Thank you for your support, Jessicaanne! And yes, to your question, we did try to feed him a few times, but he was not interested. We even left a worm in his fridge tub overnight a couple of times, but he did not touch it. Poor Pear...

Aww I'm so sorry to hear that For now I hope for the best. It'd be good if he pushed through it against all odds!

It's great that you found a helpful vet. I have a pet rat (once had multiple) and it was so hard to find an exotic vet that knew their stuff. Eventually I found a local one who was so great at what she does and she you could tell she wasn't just having a stab at what was wrong. We need more vets like this!!

I'm actually pretty surprised that no other members cared to have their input.. I honestly couldn't tell you what was wrong from experience but I gave my opinion on what could be wrong anyway (I've only owned axolotls since March so I'm pretty new to them myself)

Thanks, Jessicaanne! :happy:

I'm keeping my fingers crossed as well, 25% is still 25%! And as for knowing what was going on with him, I think you'd needed to be a vet, a very knowledgeable and experienced one, to be able to tell. I think both of our guesses were valid as such, and with these little exotics, it is just so hard to know. Thank you for giving it a go! Sometimes another person sees something else that escapes others.

As I now know what I do, his symptoms are actually visible already in the first photos I took of him on his 2nd day with us. But I didn't see anything then, as I didn't know what I was looking at. And I don't think they'd be necessarily obvious to someone else who didn't know the history. But they are there, especially when comparing him to the others. But you only see what you are looking at, and at the time I was looking at cute photos of a new healthy axolotl, so that's what I saw!

As for good vets, you are so right about how hard it is to find one that really knows what they are talking about when it comes to exotics! And I am so glad I found this clinic, as they really are good, all of them, not just the one we saw. They specialise in exotics, have a hospital and all the special equipment necessary, and they treat exotics all the time. There was actually another axolotl there at the same time with us! And they had operated on one only last week.

Well, now we've learned something new again about these amazing little mosnters, and can go on doing even better with our lovely pets, hey :happy:

All the best to us and our axies!

I'll let you know what happens with Pear once they contact us from the vet. Although we are going away for a week and a half (a human family member is close to passing due to cancer) so I'm not sure when I get to the computer again...

Thanks again for your support!

Hi there, I just wanted to let you know that this sounds sort of similar to what one of my axies had (minus the swelling).

She kept floating and eventually couldn't keep herself upright (sometimes I'd find her upside down when I'd check on her in the fridge). Also, she didn't seem able to move one of her back legs. It would stick straight up in the air, against her side.

After almost a month in the fridge, someone on the forums suggests that she may possibly have a bacterial infection. That really worried me a lot as there isn't really a cure for it. But then, a week later, she was good as new.

She's been healthy now for 6 months, has no problems, and her back leg is fine. Hopefully Pear pulls through too!

As an update for anyone interested, our little Alien-Pear is an Angel-Pear now :sad:

Sunday morning, I got a call from the vet hospital, letting me know that he was not well at all. Initially, he seemed to respond to the antibiotics given on Friday, but then started to decline again, to the point where on Sunday morning, he was floating upside-down in his fridge tub, barely able to move. The infection had gained too strong a hold of his body, damaging his organs beyond repair, and his chances of recovery were less than 5%. So on Sunday morning he was euthanised, and is now waiting for us to get home again, so I can go and pick him up, to be buried at home so he can join our other angel-pets.

Thank you all for your support! I hope others don't need to go through this. Please remember, if you suspect bacterial infection, get your axie to the vet asap! Only antibiotic treatment can save them if there is a bacterial infection involved, and the sooner you get to it the better, as the bacteria can cause a great deal of havoc if not treated, to the point where the antibiotics won't help anymore, as we had to learn the hard way. I wish I had known what to look for with Pear, so I could have realised that he was most likely ill already when he moved in with us, and I could have done something sooner to try I and save him. I could have made a difference, who knows...

Now I also have to be very vigilant with the others, as we got another axie from the same place at the same time as Pear. She is good so far, and so are the others, but still, need to keep an eye on them for a while, to make sure!

I'm so sorry to hear about Pear, R.I.P :sad:

I some how only just saw this thread.

I am so sorry for what happened to your Pear, he looked like a gorgeous little boy!

Rest assured that you did everything you could for him, and I bet he knew it. His suffering was so much less than it could of been in the hands of a less caring parent.

Rip Pear :angel: