Photosynthetic Axolotls with help from the Spotted Salamander.

I know this is pretty advanced to discuss, but I think it is worth considering if someone has the ability and means to do so. I will try to keep it short and simple.

1. The Spotted Salamander, Ambystoma maculatum, forms a very tight and mutually beneficial relationship with a specialized type of algae. This makes their eggs photosynthetic.

2. The Axolotl, Ambystoma mexicanum, often Albino, is somewhat closely related to Ambystoma maculatum. I suspect the difference in their egg structures and other bodily functions to allow for the same type of algae to grow in them and allow their eggs to be photosynthetic (allowing for better and faster development) is very little.

3. If one were to carefully, with a sterile and very small needle extract some of the algae within an egg of a spotted salamander, and inject it into a very young and new egg it could possibly colonize the egg, and the salamander, allowing for further generations of that salamander to also contain and have this algae and unique photosynthetic relationship.

. Eggs of A. maculatum can have a symbiotic relationship with a green alga, Oophila amblystomatis.[4][5] Jelly coating prevents the spotted salamander eggs from drying out, however it inhibits oxygen diffusion (required for embryo development). The Oophila alga photosynthesizes and produces oxygen in the jelly. The developing salamander thus metabolizes the oxygen, producing carbon dioxide (which then the alga consumes). It has recently been discovered that photosynthetic algae are present within the somatic and possibly the germ cells of the salamander. [6] That means the salamander is a photosynthetic animal.

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This might be useful for several reasons:
1. Healthier, larger, and more developed salamanders after hatching
2. They could hatch earlier.
3. If released back into the wild, it might give them a competitive advantage and allow for re-population of a dying species for whatever reason: being that the eggs are greenish, they are better hidden from their predators. If they develop faster, this decreases the reproductive cycle of an Axolotl, allowing for an increased rate of evolution. Plus success rate of eggs in the wild might increase for other reasons along with shorter development period, and blending in with the area better. Perhaps the larvae are stronger and bigger allowing for increased food types immediately after hatching, etc.

4. If Albino, and given ideal conditions + selective breeding, perhaps the Axolotl could become slightly photosynthetic for its entire life. (Unlikely, and unlikely to make a difference.. but who knows?) -- This is highly unlikely, and borderline delusional, however!

Also if you read the article, it suggests there are more benefits to having the algae then increased oxygen, such as a source of nutrients/energy.

Wow! That is really interesting! I really hope that someone tries this!

I don't know why the axolotls would need to be albino, but you may have just created a mad scientist. :artist: I just wanted to use that smiley.

They wouldn't need to be albino -- but I just think perhaps being white would be better since algae wants light, and it might continue to help them for a few days after hatching.


Perhaps someone knows a breeder of both spotted salamander and Axolotl that might have the interest to try it on an egg or two?

I am afraid I diagree with it's usefulness, as I hope some other people will too.

Nature and ecological relationships between species and their environments are so complex that you cannot even begin to imagine the ramifications of releasing (if it is even possible to create) an algae-symbiotic strain of axolotl. I call this 'playing-God' (without any offence meant to religious believers). We cannot release what is effectively a man-made organism out into the wild.

Firstly, there is no evidence that it would provide the axolotl with any competitive advantage over other salamander species. The axolotl in it's current range does not have any particularly strong competition with any other salamander species.

Secondly, comptetition with other species is not the main cause of the axolotl's rarity. The axolotl is restricted in it's natural range, the habitat of which is threatened. The axolotl is a rare creature to begin with by being specialised in it's location. There is no evidence that decreased risk of predation would boost the population, which is mainly under threat from pollution, agriculture and potential development on its habitat. It is true that the axolotl's population may be suffering as a result of introduced predatory fish, but this has not yet been confirmed with scientific ecological evidence and it is unclear the extent to which these fish have reduced the population. In short, what is the point of releasing improved individuals into a threatened habitat?

Thirdly, I believe that symbiotic relationships cannot be easily transplanted between species like genes and DNA can be. There is no evidence that this would even work and it could (and would likely) have the impact of killing the developing egg(s). It is also likely that the algae which lives in symbiosis with the eggs will recognise that it is not with the species it intended.

I hope this scientific point of view (from a lecturer in biodiversity, ecology and conservation) will prevent any unecessary at-home experiments by axolotl owners.

Don't many people tend to cull eggs anyway? What's wrong with trying it?

The idea of creating these and releasing them back into the wild is a very, very bad one (particularly so if on top of everything else, they are albino), and thankfully would never be allowed.
I doubt this is even possible as i expect the simbiotic relationship between A.maculatum and the alga requires specific genes for recognizition. In short, it should be a lot more difficult than just introducing the alga into axolotl eggs. As Jane commented, it´s also dubious that it would provide any benefit anyway.

While this might be of some interest in a research environment, it´s certainly not something hobbyists should be tinkering with.

Of course releasing them isn't a good idea, but it would be a bad idea to release any axolotl unless someone had a batch they got directly from the lake (which won't happen) and the proper permits. Axolotls have been used as experimental materials for a long time, and I see no reason why this would be any different than a gfp. In fact, a gfp axolotl has some jellyfish DNA in it if I'm not mistaken. This would not introduce new DNA into their genome, as the article stated the spotted salamander's genome has no algae DNA. I found the article interesting, and if there was any knowledge to be gained from trying it, I'd say go for it.

Albinism would be counter-productive for a photosynthetic animal. White means they reflect all forms of visible light. Black would mean that they absorb all forms of visible light. Which I assume would be better for photosynthesis.

I do understand the belief that this should not be done, and agree with it. There is not sufficient knowledge to be gained from doing this, however, it is an interesting idea.

The Albino idea was bad, was just something I was considering.
And also perhaps releasing them into the wild is a bad idea. However they will probably go extinct to human activity, so I don't see harm in trying to prevent it via symbiotic relationships though highly unlikely to happen.

However it might serve some commercial uses if it allows for healthier, faster developing or larger offspring.


If it serves no purpose at all, it is at least useful for finding out more about the relationship that exists between the algae and the salamander.


I am a bit disappointed that so many are against the idea of experimentation, while I assume at the same time they likely support selective breeding to produce new strains and colors of salamanders and likely often cull eggs or take animals from the wild.

Killing a few eggs should not seem like such a big deal.

Firstly, there is no evidence that it would provide the axolotl with any competitive advantage

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I agree, that was only an idea - perhaps a hypothesis.

I doubt this is even possible as i expect the simbiotic relationship between A.maculatum and the alga requires specific genes for recognizition.

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Thirdly, I believe that symbiotic relationships cannot be easily transplanted between species like genes and DNA can be. There is no evidence that this would even work and it could (and would likely) have the impact of killing the developing egg(s). It is also likely that the algae which lives in symbiosis with the eggs will recognise that it is not with the species it intended.

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As suggested in the Introduction, the embryonic association
of the Ambystoma–alga symbiosis may preclude an adaptive
immune response that would otherwise remove invading algal
cells. V(D)J recombination in B and T cells, as indicated by
RAG-1 protein in the thymus, does not occur until 6–8 wk after
fertilization in the axolotl Ambystoma mexicanum (4), well after
the initial invasion of algae in A. maculatum. The number of
potential antibodies used in adult salamander antigen response is
restricted (36), which may account for their remarkable re-
generative abilities and acceptance of allo- and xenografts (37).
The combination of an embryonic symbiosis and an inefficient
immune system may, in part, account for the acceptance of an
intracellular symbiont in A. maculatum. However, the lack of
other intracellular symbiont examples in vertebrates may simply
be due to a lack of investigation. The intracellular symbiosis
described here reveals unanticipated complexity in the Ambys-
toma–alga system with implications for the ecology, evolution,
and development of both host and symbiont.

Also many fungi, bacteria and plants form symbiotic relationships with multiple other organisms.


I agree with many of your points - however, I still feel this would be an interesting worthy experiment to try.

I agree this could be a worthy experiment to conduct, however, you need a lab in order to do that (because, again, this would be far more complicated than just putting the algae inside an egg), and people generally don´t have that. You also require an advanced understanding of inmunity and both caudate and algal physiology.

Personally, i find the same situation with GFP axolotls. Extremely useful and interesting in research but completely out of place in the general market. The same way, i would be interested in research on the subject discussed here but i don´t think such animals, if they were produced, should be available outside of research facilities.
Furthermore, i do not support artifitial selection and the propagation of commercially valuable mutations (in fact i strongly oppose it) and only in a very limited sense do i condone taking animals from the wild. The culling bit is fine by me as long as it is conducted adequately.

Axolotls are likely to go extinct in the wild, but introducing a symbiotic algae would do absolutely nothing to change that. For starters they are not going extinct because they have a biological disadvantage that could be mended with the symbiotic relationship. If their habitat was intact, they would be doing VERY well. The reason they are going extinct is because of habitat loss, polution, introduction of fish, human discturbances, etc.
Even if the symbiotic relationship prooved benefitial to axolotls and gave them an advantage in the lab, there´s no reason to think it would work at all in the wild. The lake is deep and the water is full of sediment. The algae would not be able to photosynthesize. The conditions in the lake could be lethal to the alga in many other ways. Even if not lethal, the algae might abandon the relationship and colonize the lake indendently.

Why do you care what is sold in the general market?

Because we are dealing with living animals and i think maintaining animals in captivity is only ethical if their well being is guaranteed.

I can't see how injecting algae into Axolotl eggs would even work. It took thousands of years for that relationship to happen. Just injecting it into another egg and the same relationship forming is very unlikely.

For me such discussion is strictly theoretical. To do such things you need either both knowledge and deep understanding of salamander's physiology and ecology and means to make such experiments, a well-equipped lab. Also, as Rodrigo pointed, it's problem of environment destruction the reason of axolotls near extinction.

May i ask, Vesp, what age and level of education are you at?

I find it a bit confusing why everyone is immediately rejecting the idea of this, instead of discussing the requirements or why it is or is not possible. I realize it is a far shot, but like I have said -- I feel it is worth looking into, and addressing the various aspects.

First off, I would like to point out that many diseases, parasites, and symbiotic relationships can spread from various related and non-related species, while some are much more specific and can only spread vertically from parent to offspring. What makes everyone so sure that this algae is specifically and only for the spotted salamander?

Considering that other amphibians, such as different types of frogs and other salamaders also have algae growing in their eggs to aid in the development, but most amphibians do not -- it suggests that the algae has either spread horizontally from one species that is extremely unrelated to another species at one point in the past, or there is an awful lot of parallel evolution going on. I suspect it is not a case of parellel evolution, but horziontal transger of the algae from one species egg to another.


How would that happen gradually?

"Since other salamanders and some frog species have similar algae/egg symbioses, it is possible that some of those will also have the type of endosymbioses we have seen in the spotted salamander."

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-- Algae that live inside the cells of salamanders are the first known vertebrate endosymbionts: IU News Room: Indiana University


In my opinion, it is more likely that somehow this type of algae was transfered into an egg via contact or something else and then over time with this new environment it co-evolved to optimize the symbiotic relationship becoming a new species of algae but still closely related to the ancestors. Clearly the algae from a frogs egg, and a salamanders egg has a common ancestor much more recently then the frog and the salamander had their common ancestor. Right? Or would you argue otherwise?

I can't see how injecting algae into Axolotl eggs would even work. It took thousands of years for that relationship to happen. Just injecting it into another egg and the same relationship forming is very unlikely.

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Many people in this thread have already mentioned they don't think it is very likely. I understand it may or may not happen. I suspect the same relationship would not form if one injected the algae into the eggs. A different one would though, I bet. The algae might not be as helpful, either because of its limited growth, or its uncontrolled growth making it more of a parasite then a symbiont.

I realize it takes years of evolution and blah blah blah for symbiotic and parasitic relationships to come about but why is that? A lot of it is oppertunity -- unless you want to argue that the algae in the frog and salamander eggs evolved entirely independantly of one another, I think it makes more sense for the other frogs and salamanders to have a related "same genus" algae growing in it.


I realize still that maybe a relationship could not form, but as I pointed out earlier it does not seem to be a thing about the salamanders having a special immune system that allows for the algae to grow.

As suggested in the Introduction, the embryonic association
of the Ambystoma–alga symbiosis may preclude an adaptive
immune response that would otherwise remove invading algal
cells. V(D)J recombination in B and T cells, as indicated by
RAG-1 protein in the thymus, does not occur until 6–8 wk after
fertilization in the axolotl Ambystoma mexicanum (4), well after
the initial invasion of algae in A. maculatum. The number of
potential antibodies used in adult salamander antigen response is
restricted (36), which may account for their remarkable re-
generative abilities and acceptance of allo- and xenografts (37).
The combination of an embryonic symbiosis and an inefficient
immune system may, in part, account for the acceptance of an
intracellular symbiont in A. maculatum. However, the lack of
other intracellular symbiont examples in vertebrates may simply
be due to a lack of investigation. The intracellular symbiosis
described here reveals unanticipated complexity in the Ambys-
toma–alga system with implications for the ecology, evolution,
and development of both host and symbiont.

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After reading that, and seeing that salamander eyes can be transplanted from one species to another without immunilogocial problems (foreign-eyes.html) I suspect that the algae would probably NOT be rejected by the Axolotls eggs, and likely grow in it.

I also suspect that the immunological, morphological and other differences between a very young egg of an Axolotl vs a spotted salamander is very little. Once Algae was implanted inside the egg, in a safe and appropriate place early on in its development - I don't see why it wouldn't colonize to some extent.

To do such things you need either both knowledge and deep understanding of salamander's physiology and ecology

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Yes -- that is why we are discussing it. There is no reason that we cannot find out just as much information as professional scientists - journals are published regularly, and most college students can access them for free either via the university, or some other means. I know I can generally get ANY journal I want within in a week of requesting it.

and means to make such experiments, a well-equipped lab.

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What sort of lab would you need?
Sterile water and a syringe? A laminar flow hood? Incubators? Falsks, autoclaves? aquariums? lighting? temperature control?

All of that stuff is easily obtainable. I have most all of that stuff, or the ability to get it/improvise things such as temperature and lighting control.

Not that I plan to take on this project -- but I doubt it is as crazy as all of you would like to believe.
Many endo and epi symbiotic fungi, protists, and bacteria transfer easily to and from various insects, plants, and animals -- but then again, others are impossible to grow unless it is on a very specific host. Which is it for this Algae? I don't know -- that is why I posted about it, and wanted to discuss it.

And of course - I am NOT saying it is possible, but I am discussing the idea of it. It is easy to say "Thats too complicated, it won't work!" but if you don't provide any legitimate reasons, such as there being a need for a certain gel density of the egg to work, a certain protein present, etc.. then saying it won't work has as much merit as saying it will work.

Because we are dealing with living animals and i think maintaining animals in captivity is only ethical if their well being is guaranteed.

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I see we have some pretty serious philosophical differences. Are you upset by the xenoplastic eye surgery that surely was not concerned of their "well being" since you know, they cut out the eyes of one salamander and put them in another.

An Axolotl with GFP doesn't have a lower quality of life if kept properly. I imagine if one could figure out an algae/axolotl setup it would potentially increase the "quality" of an Axolotls life. (But then again, are these animals even smart enough to have a quality of life? They surely aren't aware of their own existence or have any self identity -- they are but a little biological computer with DNA software programmed by evolution)

You never know - if we researched this enough it might seem fairly possible and someone with the ability and means to test this could come across it and do such an experiment. Surely their are some herpetologists that view this site on occasion.

Research has nothing to do with the general "pet" market. I´m perfectly ok with transplants, GFP animals, etc, etc, in a research contest. I´m not ok with any of those for commercial interests. GFP can indeed be unimpeded by their new nature, but unfortunately, they are largely bought because of their novelty value and exposed to high levels of ultraviolet light which is in itself a concern, but is more so as it makes a deep, muddy water, lake species which is sensitive to light, fluoresce from the inside. As many GFP owners have noticed, they generally don´t enjoy that.
Axolotls don´t have nervous systems as sophisticated as other animal groups but they are not sponges...They have many of the same characteristics that we have, like concious perception (if you have complex eyes, a lateral line, etc, you have to have a conscious experience of that perception), pain and stress responses... There can be no doubt that they are capable of suffering. We are biological "machines" programmed by DNA too and yet we are very sophisticated. Both axolotls and us are tetrapods, we share most of the very basics. So yes, quality of life is relevant.

I see. Well this could easily be an interesting discussion but I'll not derail this failing discussion of adding algae to Axolotls.

Maybe some other time we should talk about what sort of doors to perception these Axolotl have.

Also some things to note:
Not ALL spotted salamander eggs have algae meaning possibly a few things:
1. The algae die off inside the salamanders, giving random occurences of non-algae eggs.
2. There is a separate line of salamanders that is isolated physically or by breeding patterns from alga salamanders.

3. The alga interaction is a super recent occurrence and it has yet to spread through all of the population. (unlikely)

Another complicating factor in the analysis of gas exchange involves symbiotic relationships between amphibian eggs and the often considerable algal populations living not only in the jelly matrix but also actually within the egg (Orr 1888; Gilbert 1942; Hutchison and Hammen 1958; Hammen and Hutchison 1962; Hutchison l97l; Gatz 1973). Eggs of the salamander Ambysloma maculatum that are inhabited by Chlamydomonas (0ophila) amblystornalis have a lower mortality rate, faster growth rate, and earlier hatching time than noninhabited eggs. Although it is
thought that this improved survivability results from the release of an unidentified growth-promoting factor (Hammen and Hutchison 1962), it is possible that photosynthesis in eggs with highly concentrated algal populations might significantly raise 02 levels and reduce CO2 levels within the egg mass (Moore, Keammerer, and Smith 1974). This assumes, however, that the interior of the egg is hypoxic and hypercarbic in the absence of photosynthesizing algae, a condition which to my knowledge has not been demonstrated experimentally.

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-- GAS EXCHANGE. METABOLISM. AND “VENTILATlON" IN GELATINOUS FROG EGG MASSESI
WARREN BURGGREN
Department of Zoology. University of Massachusetts Amherst, Massachusetts 01003-0027 (Accepted 2/7/85)

Each spring, North American spotted salamander (Ambystoma maculatum) females each lay hundreds of eggs in shallow pools of water. Eggs are surrounded by jelly layers and deposited as large gelatinous masses. Following deposition, masses are penetrated by a mutualistic green alga, Oophila amblystomatis, which enters individual egg capsules, proliferates, and aggregates near the salamander embryo, providing oxygen that enhances development. We examined the effects of population density of intracapsular Oophila on A. maculatum embryos, and show that larger algal populations promote faster embryonic growth and development. Also, we show that carbon fixed by Oophila is transferred to the embryos, providing the first evidence of direct translocation of photosynthate from a symbiont to a vertebrate host.

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-- Intracapsular algae provide fixed carbon to devel... [J Exp Biol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

From the above quotes and the below image attached -- it sounds like the alga enter via flagella into the eggs. If this is the case, it may allow for them to also enter into an Axolotls egg.

would it be possible to just add the algae to your breeding tank and allow it to flourish and see if anyting happens. or is this algae dependent solely on the symbiosis?