Paranoid I know but-- My lotl is not eating?

I am a little paranoid and thought reluctant, I want to ask the forums to see if I should be worried or I can relax.

Water parms: normal, ammonia:0 etc
Tank: 20 gallons
tankmates. 5 minnows, 3 amano shrimp (which have been cleverly eluding the lotl) both mates have been breeded by me and my friend (quarintined previously to be tankmates for a betta but decided to try with the lotl)
Temperature: 18C
Diet: bloodworms, mysis shrimp - (have salmon and beef heart too but haven't introduced them yet)
Feeding: every 1-2 days, I vary, first 1 day then 2 days and so so...
Size: around 13cm
Behavior: no changes, except described below
Appearance:no visible changes, gills are regrowing
Husbandry: 20% water changes after every feeding day. With siphon. Water prepared and left at room temperature 24-48 hours before. Tap water. Water is added 5% every 20-30min to lower impact on chemistry, temp, etc.

I had the axie for almost 2 weeks, and today I decided, even though I have bad allergies to put in bloodworms for the first time in his tank. I stared for a while expectantly to see him try it out but he ignored them. I did use some long chopsticks (cause I can't touch them directly) and wriggled it before him, which caught his attention and he took a bite. Before ignoring them again.

I figured that since I didn't leave a fasting day between his previous feeding and the worms, I cleaned it up and tried again the day after.

He was sitting in his feeding bowl and took another single bite of the worms before ignoring them again. I siphoned them up and since I was a little worried I quickly switched that day the food to mysis shrimp, as it was technically a feeding day, and waited.

He ignored them completely.

Today I introduced the bloodworms again and left the room, and I will check back in a few minutes.

I'm a little worried because it's his 4th day today ignoring his food. My first guess was perhaps he ate one of the fish meant to be a stimulant for him to eat. But I did a head count and they are all there.

My second guess was that perhaps he is stressed of his tankmates. The minnows were added almost half a week ago, around the time he stopped eating, and they are getting a bit frisky in there, swimming all over the place even trying to steal some of the lotl's food. The shrimp are always out of sight so I doubt they are any issue. I could remove the minnows without a problem, I have forseen this kind of situation, and I have a 10 gallon on the side (though it's divided) for them.

My third guess is that something is wrong with my husbandry, or tank, perhaps the temperature is a bit high since the ideal temp is somewhere between 15-20? I'll chill my room if I must, fridge should be a last option as xmas is coming and family (a lot of people) so yea... imagine trying to get at some leftovers and a lotl is staring back at you.

My fourth guess is that nothing is wrong, that my lotl needed more time without food to adjust to new food or something, I doubt it but I am a bit hypocondriac with my animals. It's been a bit hard to get my hands on live food at the moment, the bait shop is so far away... it takes me 6 hours to go and come back by bus, and I do not have that much spare time--

so yeah what do you guys think. Also I am worried he is a little underweight, I've seen so many axolotls that are so plump and round. Perhaps they were females, but I dunno, might as well ask.

I'm also sorry to ask you guys this, I lack experience and I'm trying to do the best I can... I'll leave you with some pictures, the first one was the first day I got the lotl, with the gravel within the tank, a newbie mistake, I believed the shop keeper, but he didn't stay in there longer than a few hours till I set up his 20g. The second is how he is now, his gills are regrowing and must more colofull lately.

The tank is still a work in progress, waiting to have more budget, the light is for picture purposes. I have some more java moss in QT atm.

At 5" your axolotl should still be feeding every day, they do reduce their feeding rates as they get bigger, I wouldn't be overly concerned about the occasional missed days feeding at that size but more than that would start to concern me. Your axolotl does look on the skinny size and would probably benefit from a change of diet to earthworms rather than bloodworm. Not very helpful advice at the moment as it is not feeding which is your main concern but something to consider when it does start feeding, also give the beef heart a miss and frozen salmon is deficient in thiamine due to the freezing process, it is also a sea fish so should be avoided, try fresh trout if you want , my axolotls get that once a month and enjoy it. Axolotls not feeding can be caused by a number of reasons, heat stress could be one but your tank is at 18c which is fine, the second reason could be water quality, you say you are doing regular water changes but is your tank cycled? and what are the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings? your axolotl does look slightly pink but not excessively so and there appears to be no signs of ammonia burns, the gill loss looks bad, was the axolotl like that when you had it ? that could be due to poor water quality. The third reason could be impaction from gravel which would be helped by fridging , allowing it to pass the stones more easily. I would however look at the water quality first, get the water tested and post the results here.

xxianxx said:

At 5" your axolotl should still be feeding every day, they do reduce their feeding rates as they get bigger, I wouldn't be overly concerned about the occasional missed days feeding at that size but more than that would start to concern me. Your axolotl does look on the skinny size and would probably benefit from a change of diet to earthworms rather than bloodworm. Not very helpful advice at the moment as it is not feeding which is your main concern but something to consider when it does start feeding, also give the beef heart a miss and frozen salmon is deficient in thiamine due to the freezing process, it is also a sea fish so should be avoided, try fresh trout if you want , my axolotls get that once a month and enjoy it. Axolotls not feeding can be caused by a number of reasons, heat stress could be one but your tank is at 18c which is fine, the second reason could be water quality, you say you are doing regular water changes but is your tank cycled? and what are the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings? your axolotl does look slightly pink but not excessively so and there appears to be no signs of ammonia burns, the gill loss looks bad, was the axolotl like that when you had it ? that could be due to poor water quality. The third reason could be impaction from gravel which would be helped by fridging , allowing it to pass the stones more easily. I would however look at the water quality first, get the water tested and post the results here.

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I had him for two weeks, yes my axolotl was like that when I got him, he was skinny and the gills were practically gone, I explained it and place a picture of him with said explanation. Now they are growing back slightly. I do not usually feed him blood worms, but mysis shrimp, I'm generally allergic to blood worms but I wanted to vary his diet a little.As I also stated above, I was introducing them to him for the first time.

I'll see when I have a moment to go to the bait shop.... I doubt I can go anytime soon... perhaps in March. Why? they don't open again till mid Jan, then I have exams... till March... thats why.

If you dont have a test kit to do the water tests and the tank has only been set up for a couple of weeks it would be safe to assume the tank is not cycled. Increase your water changes for the next few weeks and see if this solves the problem, the fact that your axolotls gills are growing back indicates the water isnt really bad but your ammonia , nitrate and nitrite may still be a bit high.

xxianxx said:

If you dont have a test kit to do the water tests and the tank has only been set up for a couple of weeks it would be safe to assume the tank is not cycled. Increase your water changes for the next few weeks and see if this solves the problem, the fact that your axolotls gills are growing back indicates the water isnt really bad but your ammonia , nitrate and nitrite may still be a bit high.

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define increase please. I change the water after every feeding 20% which means every 1 -2 days it is changed.

Do you mean 50%?

You mean more often?

P.S: I removed the minnows, as the problem started around the same time they arrived. Perhaps he's stressed by the activity around him. I am going to wait an see if without the minnows he does better

Asuka said:

define increase please. I change the water after every feeding 20% which means every 1 -2 days it is changed.

Do you mean 50%?

You mean more often?

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For an uncycled tank a 20% change every couple of days may not be enough to cycle it safetly with axolotls in. I test all of my tanks prior to water changes as the amount of water that needs to be removed varies depending on stocking density, temp, feeding regime, wether or not the tank is planted and of course wether it is cycled. Some of my tanks get a 10% monthly change others a weekly 50% change. Without knowing your water quality I would recommend a 20% daily change and remove uneaten food from the tank at the same time. Other people may disagree with this and thats fine as this is purely my personal opinion and other people may do things differently. So up the water changes and see if the axolotls appetite returns, also monitor its colour, if it loses the pinkish colour it may be a water quality issue. Plus get a test kit, they are invaluable and available online.

xxianxx said:

For an uncycled tank a 20% change every couple of days may not be enough to cycle it safetly with axolotls in. I test all of my tanks prior to water changes as the amount of water that needs to be removed varies depending on stocking density, temp, feeding regime, wether or not the tank is planted and of course wether it is cycled. Some of my tanks get a 10% monthly change others a weekly 50% change. Without knowing your water quality I would recommend a 20% daily change and remove uneaten food from the tank at the same time. Other people may disagree with this and thats fine as this is purely my personal opinion and other people may do things differently. So up the water changes and see if the axolotls appetite returns, also monitor its colour, if it loses the pinkish colour it may be a water quality issue. Plus get a test kit, they are invaluable and available online.

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I have been intending to get a kit for the longest. What the problem? My mail generally never reaches me. I will not state the reasons as it is a personal matter. I will also not talk about my economy, but needless to say, 75 euro test kit in a shop I found is not money I can spare now especially since one of my other fish needed a new heater+medicine+tank (the old one got cracked.).

Basically water changes are the same as now then-- Anyways, removed the minnows, took away the waterfall difuser I had, which is something I added recently too, and I'm seeing if maybe the reason is stress.

I think I will keep the lotl with the amano, the minnows will be back in the feeding tank, personally I do not enjoy them taking the lotls food, I just thought it would keep him stimulated. He's not pink, he looks like it in the pictures, but in person he looks more like a-- yellow i dunno if that's good...

thanks for your help

Asuka said:

Basically water changes are the same as now then--

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No, you need to increase them , you said you did 20% 1-2 days, I said do 20% every day. If it is a water quality issue you need to increase the water changes, without a test kit you cant tell what the water quality is, it is just a potential problem which can be addressed with additional water changes to rule it out ,if no improvement in the appetite occurs within a week look to gravel impaction as a cause .

xxianxx said:

No, you need to increase them , you said you did 20% 1-2 days, I said do 20% every day. If it is a water quality issue you need to increase the water changes, without a test kit you cant tell what the water quality is, it is just a potential problem which can be addressed with additional water changes to rule it out ,if no improvement in the appetite occurs within a week look to gravel impaction as a cause .

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mmmk, I have been doing daily changes lately as I did try to entice him with food for the past 4 days.

And what do you mean gravel impactation?

Gravel impaction is when small stones are eaten , they can pass through the digestive system but sometimes they stick in the gut and cant be passed, placing the axolotl in the fridge at a lower temp can relieve this condition.

xxianxx said:

Gravel impaction is when small stones are eaten , they can pass through the digestive system but sometimes they stick in the gut and cant be passed, placing the axolotl in the fridge at a lower temp can relieve this condition.

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But all he has is sand o.o-- I explained that he was only in the gravel tank for a few hours 2-3 and then I took him out. And this was 2 weeks ago... How could it affect him now?

Anyways I followed your advice, as we were talking, I decided to lift up all the decor and make any debris, food etc fall on the sand.

I siphoned it up and removed 75% of the water, I have added most of it, not following my usual 20min rule as I soon have to go. I'm waiting to readd the next portion of water.

Also my lotl is very docile o.o'' he allowed me to pick him up gently while I was siphoning the sand underneath him. He used to bite me... I do not take this a good sign.

Then again there was a lot of debris so water could have been the issue. It never really occured to me, to shake the decor and such to get the food stuck there. I thank my sudden idea to do so. Since there was a lot of hassle going on, I'm going to add the last portion of water and let him settle for a day... I'll try to feed him again.

Does that sound like a plan? Or should I stop trying for a few days?

Or Should I keep trying everyday?

p.s: 75% was only for today, tomorrow it shall be 20%

Keep the water clean and keep offering food to see if his appetite returns.

xxianxx said:

Keep the water clean and keep offering food to see if his appetite returns.

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okay, but just to be prepared... how long should I do this until I know that its something bad he's suffering from

As I said in my first post , loss of appetite could be down to a number off things
1)Temperature
2)water quality
3)Gravel impaction
it could also indicate illness. The problem in your case is not temp, 18c is fine , by keeping the tank cleaner you can eliminate water quality as a probable cause after a week or so, if the problem continues you may want to look at gravel impaction or another illness. Most of the axolotl health problems reported in this forum are a result of those three factors, eliminate them and you need to see advice from a vet or a more experienced person than me.

xxianxx said:

As I said in my first post , loss of appetite could be down to a number off things
1)Temperature
2)water quality
3)Gravel impaction
it could also indicate illness. The problem in your case is not temp, 18c is fine , by keeping the tank cleaner you can eliminate water quality as a probable cause after a week or so, if the problem continues you may want to look at gravel impaction or another illness. Most of the axolotl health problems reported in this forum are a result of those three factors, eliminate them and you need to see advice from a vet or a more experienced person than me.

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Makes sense, can sand cause gravel impactation? Cause I dont have gravel

I had the same problem when I bought my Derpy (leucistic). She refused to eat, didn't show any interest in food at all compared to her tank mate (fed her blood worms at first), she was skinny and had short gills and such...

You know what eventually got her attention? A big fat wriggling earthworm. I've had her for a month now and every time I feed her, she can't wait to snatch the worm out of my fingers.

Tephra said:

I had the same problem when I bought my Derpy (leucistic). She refused to eat, didn't show any interest in food at all compared to her tank mate (fed her blood worms at first), she was skinny and had short gills and such...

You know what eventually got her attention? A big fat wriggling earthworm. I've had her for a month now and every time I feed her, she can't wait to snatch the worm out of my fingers.

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but did she eat in the begining or refused to eat the moment you got her, because almost for a week and a half he was eating fine--

I also made the mistake of keeping my juvenile axie on gravel... Nearly 6wks later I'm still finding the odd bit of gravel sitting on the sand we have now.

Gravel can cause impaction over a long period of time. What substrate did the pet shop have their axies on? It's very possible the gravel could be there for months.

Look on line for testing kits at better prices & perhaps have the item sent to a good friends house. There's always ways to get around problems



<3 >o_o< <3

Asuka said:

but did she eat in the begining or refused to eat the moment you got her, because almost for a week and a half he was eating fine--

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She ate at first, couldn't even wait for the block of blood worms to thaw. She just suddenly stopped eating, and I found out she was impacted... she wouldn't eat anything. Even after she'd pooped out all the stones, she just didn't want to eat. Until I fed her earthworms. It did take up to a week before she finally ate again though... and even then, she didn't eat every day (and she should, she's still quite young and needs to grow).
It took a week or so before she finally started eating healthily and gained the weight she needed.

Other people have asked this before, but did the pet store keep your new axolotl on gravel or sand? Sand shouldn't cause impaction, but gravel nearly always does. I found out mine was impacted because she pooped out a few small rocks. However, if the gravel in the store was too big (in case your axolotl was kept on gravel there), it might not get pooped out so easily... You could always try fridging it in that case.
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...ick-axolotl/85263-axolotl-fridging-guide.html

Just be aware of one thing, axolotls can swallow items the size of their heads. If this situation does not improve and he won't eat and the fridging doesn't help, you should probably go to a vet.

Tephra said:

She ate at first, couldn't even wait for the block of blood worms to thaw. She just suddenly stopped eating, and I found out she was impacted... she wouldn't eat anything. Even after she'd pooped out all the stones, she just didn't want to eat. Until I fed her earthworms. It did take up to a week before she finally ate again though... and even then, she didn't eat every day (and she should, she's still quite young and needs to grow).
It took a week or so before she finally started eating healthily and gained the weight she needed.

Other people have asked this before, but did the pet store keep your new axolotl on gravel or sand? Sand shouldn't cause impaction, but gravel nearly always does. I found out mine was impacted because she pooped out a few small rocks. However, if the gravel in the store was too big (in case your axolotl was kept on gravel there), it might not get pooped out so easily... You could always try fridging it in that case.
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...ick-axolotl/85263-axolotl-fridging-guide.html

Just be aware of one thing, axolotls can swallow items the size of their heads. If this situation does not improve and he won't eat and the fridging doesn't help, you should probably go to a vet.

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well he was in a bare-bottomed tank at the store.

I feed the lotl in a feeding bowl so he will get the minimal amount of sand in his body. sure some grains of sand will fall into it but not much. They are such messy eaters. It also helps the food not to get scattered. Anyways, I shall not discard impactation. Just in case.